ICD-SE, DDF to Decorate?

[Johnny]

I was just wondering, has anyone ever though of converting Cory Whittle's Immoral Conduct mod to Decorate? Seeing as Edge sucks pretty bad in my opinion and will probably never have multiplayer support, I think it'd be cool to use it in (G)ZDoom.

Note: This is not a request

[wildweasel]

I suppose that if one were willing to remove the ability to reload manually, ICD-SE could very well be replicated in GZDoom. However, many of us weapon modders would much rather create new mods from scratch instead of porting ICD (don't get me wrong, though; ICD is one of the greatest mods of all time).

[RTC_Marine]

I could imagine ICD dm/coop being really fun.

[wildweasel]

Somebody would have to figure out, though, how to spawn players with Decorate weapons in multiplayer...something I haven't even managed yet.

[Chrono_T]

Ya know, edge needs something of it's own. I'd rather have ICD-SE on edge, because it needs to have at least something for it.

[TheDarkArchon]

WildWeasel said:

Somebody would have to figure out, though, how to spawn players with Decorate weapons in multiplayer.

That's the only forseeable problem I would have if I converted it (That and NiGHTMARE coverage: I'd hack manual reloading by binding a key to give a item that activates reloading which wouldn't work in NiGHTMARE.)

[Liberation]

Johnny said:

as Edge sucks pretty bad

Why does it suck? It doesn't, you are just a dick.

[Nautilus]

Yeah, it would really be nice to convert Immoral Conduct to decorate. EDGE does lavish the cock, and seeing a nice weapons mod made for it is saddening.

[wildweasel]

The only problem I see with EDGE is that nobody maps for it. This problem could be fixed easily enough, as EDGE has a relatively good feature set behind it (and whatever isn't supported out of the box can be easily applied through DDF or RTS).

[Liberation]

A fair few map for edge actually, me, Dark shadow, Lobo, Nick Perrin to name but few, edge 1.29 is the best edge has ever been.

Nautilus said:

EDGE does lavish the cock, and seeing a nice weapons mod made for it is saddening.

LOL

[Lizardcommando]

I think all EDGE needs is multiplayer.

...

...

And software rendering mode like in the old version.

[Chrono_T]

Didn't I remember it had to do something with software and it taking a very long time to code back, plus the fact that it interferrs with the engine?

[Lizardcommando]

Yeah, i think it was something like that which prevents the EDGE team from further work on the software engine. Either that, or it was way too time consuming to work on both engines at the same time...

Anyways, it's still a sad thing to see go bye-bye. :*(

I want to play ICD-SE and ICD-Lizard online.

[Chrono_T]

Meh, you never know. Watch them pull a fast one and surprize us all with the next release.

[Liberation]

No chance chrono software render is dead...

[Dco16]

EDGE just needs better rendering period. It needs to perform better with massive levels/sectors like, say, ZDoom. And it needs software mode. It would be easier just to say "Zdoom needs DDF"

[Liberation]

I agree with zdoom needing ddf, decorate is just daft ( i can provide examples if required). With the render, well my napalm levels run fine even with 32bit png's, 3d floors, hunderds of sprites and a sky box so i would say that its fine, i would like the frame rate uncapped but never mind...

Most people who give edge shit have only used 1.27 and 1.28a, 1.29 even thou its still in beta phase is alot better peformance wise and the ddf and rts are very flexable.

The only reason im going on, is that if I started a thread saying that someone should convert RTC 3057 to edge coz zdoom sucks then I would get flamed... and badly.

[Nick Perrin]

EDGE rules. I have always wanted to play EDGE weapon mods (the GOOD ones) in multiplayer, I would love it if some EDGE mods were successfully ported. Even if EDGE got netplay, it wouldn't have the same audience and amount of people to face off against as Zdoom.

Still, those who say EDGE sucks only say so out of ignorance, because everyone else says so, or because of the mods they see. When me, Liberation, Lobo and Darkshadow release our upcoming projects I do think people will change their minds.

[TheDarkArchon]

Liberation said:

I agree with zdoom needing ddf, decorate is just daft ( i can provide examples if required).

Being proficent in both, I say it's a fairly even playing ground. Each has their own advantages and disadvanteges. However, since DDF is dependant on the way EDGE does things which is massively different from the other ports, don't count on it happening.

[Scuba Steve]

Nick Perrin said:

Still, those who say EDGE sucks only say so out of ignorance, because everyone else says so, or because of the mods they see.

Bullshit. EDGE is a poor port because the rendering engine is awful which is obvious to anyone. EDGE's WORST fault lately is lack of support for previous releases in each recent recently RC2.14 won't work with RC2.15 or however the naming convention goes. Older releases Don't work at ALL with newer releases. There are no EDGE mods so great it warrants 5 copies of the EXE on my HD. In fact I can really only name ONE mod ever made for EDGE which is worth actually playing, Don's Challenge. Playing a wad just to see some new guns is pointless, I don't even do it. There is no reason to use EDGE now.

Nick Perrin said:

When me, Liberation, Lobo and Darkshadow release our upcoming projects I do think people will change their minds.

I hope so.

[Nick Perrin]

Scuba Steve said:

EDGE's WORST fault lately is lack of support for previous releases in each recent recently RC2.14 won't work with RC2.15 or however the naming convention goes.

That's just between versions very far apart now, I'm pretty sure that the latest RCs are backwards-compatible, to an extent...

And a new goal of my project is to change your mind! At least to show that it is a port capable of fun worthwhile mods.

[Liberation]

The edge team did say when releasing the 1.29 beta's that making mods for them werent the best of ideas since the code would be changing between beta..

2nd whats wrong with the render i think they did a good job, i just would'nt go calling it a poor port when there is alot worse out there.

[Khorus]

The reason why so many people use EDGE as a weapons port is the fact that it is much more flexable than DECORATE. The fact it is also in the offical build helps it alot aswell.

Alot of TCs are in production for EDGE rihgt now, and the main reason (from what I can see) is that they are making much more of a product than a few maps. People (Nick, Lobo, Dark, Liberation etc.) are all slaving away creating sprites, a ton of coding, some great maps, textures, not just a simple ZDooM map pack. I find it funny to read people useing the fact that EDGE doesn't have a large mapping audience (which is down-right wrong) as an excuse to put-down the port.

EDGE is a port that changes doom, while ZDooM is a port that enhances the classic experince. They both have differnt objectives in what they try to achive from the game, so it is pretty stupid to compare and complain.

[Snarboo]

*sigh* Some people will just never understand the appeal of a weapons mod. I don't understand why so many people bash EDGE. It's a fine port, and the team behind it has worked hard. Yes, it's a port that doesn't tend to be backwards compatible, but it's not like most ports are. Not even the "godly" ZDoom can claim that.

I mean, there have been so many different versions and confusion over the post months. First there was .63a, then it jumped to .90 or whatever when Strife support was added. There was going to be a .64 version, but that was dropped, and gave way to .96x, which is a community supported version only. Randy pretty much stated that in the next few builds he is not going to add Decorate support because he considers it a "hack".

I know a lot of people will disagree with me here, but I think EDGE is the best GL port, as it looks the most like the original Doom to me. ZDoom never felt like or looked like Doom to me, there was just so much different from it and vanilla to cause this sort of rift in me. However, EDGE keeps the basic, clean appearance that Doom has always had. It's easy to use and very flexible. EDGE is also one of the very few ports that is completely open source, and that can run on a multitude of systems. ZDoom doesn't seem to do that nearly as well.

It's not a perfect port by any means. It doesn't have complete Boom support, many map hacks and tricks don't work or look right, and many people are turned off by the "lack" of backwards compatibility. Yet it is my favorite port along with GZDoom. I plan on continuing to use EDGE for the foreseeable future, and I definitely would love to release a bunch of minimods with new levels, monsters, weapons, and even scripting, not only for fun, but to prove that it is a very capable port.

[Scuba Steve]

You COMPLETELY missed the point. Imagine if ZDoom 1.23 wads didn't run at ALL with ZDoom 2.98? Tai Tenga is still playable in ZDoom today despite being deveoped for a 4 year old version of the exe. 96x is a hack build. Randy is absolutely correct that he is not required to support it... BUT he has stated that the next iteration of ZDoom will support it because so many peolpe took advantage of it. Eternity, Legacy... none of these break complete support when a new version is released. Old legacy wads from 1999 will stil ron on legacy today. EDGE Refuses to even load a level not built with the most current build.

So far nobody has provided a good reason to install EDGE. I do not miss the "appeal" of a weapons mod, because there is very little for anyone but that small nitche group. What am I supposed to do, play the same 12 year old levels with Counterstrike rips? Like I said earlier, somebody release a solid and interesting mod for EDGE featuring new graphics and creative levels that show off just how "powerful" the EDGE system is... not just for making a gun shoot a bunch of crap.

[TheDarkArchon]

Snarboo said:

in the next few builds he is not going to add Decorate support because he considers it a "hack".

You couldn't be more wrong: He said he wasn't going to use the parts for "use","pickup" and "drop" states. Even then he relented and made them only useable if the item inherits from CustomInventory.

[Nick Perrin]

Scuba Steve said:

A good reason to install EDGE.

To develop mods for it. If you would rather use a different port, then whatever. Developing mods in EDGE is easy, fun and there are lots of possibilites - that's its appeal.

Scuba Steve said:

A good reason to install EDGE.

More reasons will come eventually in the form of mods. But don't expect them all too soon!

[Snarboo]

I understand that you don't like weapons mod, Scuba, you don't have to, but for those of us that do enjoy that sort of thing, EDGE is a powerful platform for it. EDGE is so powerful it can fully mimmick entirely different games without much problem, and it's very easy to do to boot. Look at Doom 2.5 and QDoom for proof of that.

It's amazing the types of things you can create with it. Outside of DDF, there is RTS. It's nowhere near as powerful as ACS, but it is powerful. Not to mention that EDGE supports most Boom features, has 3D floors and fluids, and can even have custom line types created by the user as he wishes. As for backwards compatibility, the EDGE team is working on that, and from what I hear, the 1.29 release is one of the best for that there ever has been. When you add as many new features and change things as EDGE has, you can expect there to be problems with playing older mods.

You could easily create a killer project with it, which is something I seek to do. Whether or not that will convince anyone to install it or make them respect it and realize how powerful it is, I don't care. Why you have to crap on it and rant about how "terrible" it is, I don't know. It doesn't serve to do anything but cause conflict.

[Scuba Steve]

Show me then! I have no doubt EDGE is capable of producing a really fun mod, a great mod can be made in any port it's just up to the author. EDGE is the one port lacking a "killer mod" which is probably the largest reason nobody uses it. You come out swinging telling me why EDGE is so great, admit that weapons mods are only for a select few, then wonder why we don't use it. Give me a reason and I'll re-install it. I believe there are 1 or 2 due soon that look noteworthy. Time will tell.

[wildweasel]

The best example, I believe, is QDoom by Marc Pullen. While it's a little old, it doesn't show through too terribly. And I very much want to make an Edge TC myself at some point.