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Ezxariarch

The Best, the worse, and the most annoying Monster of all?

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In all the doom and it's clone games (games on the same engine-Doom2, Heretic, Hexen, Strife, etc). which monster is the WORSE of them all. And which do you think is the most annoying?

Best: Archvile (as usual)- It has the coolest attack, and can ressurect dead baddies. It deals a nasty amount of damage, and is completely unavoidable in a open area. It's also very fast, and has a relatively small radius, making it hard to hit. It's painchance is also very low, making it very hard to stop it's attacks. Although I dont think i've ever been killed directly by an arch vile, it's blasted me into a pool of lava plenty of times with only 15 HP remaining, which ends up killing me.

Suckiest: Cacodemon - It has probably the lowest Damage/Health ratio in the entire game (1/10). That and it's really big and red, making it really easy to see and hit. I've seen it getting it's ass kicked by a chaingunner about a hundred times.

Most Annoying: Pain Elemental - It's like the caco demon, but spawns so many lost souls that it's just a big waste of ammo. It's not all that dangerous, but certainly annoying when there are bunches of it's minions flying around you. When it dies, it spawns even more lost souls, wasting more of you ammo.

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Ezxariarch said:
Although I dont think i've ever been killed directly by an arch vile,

You mustn't have played much; I've been killed by every monster countless times!

It has probably the lowest Damage/Health ratio in the entire game (1/10).

They inflict 5-40 points of damage (about 22.5) per attack and have 400 hit points. The Bruiser brothers inflict 8-64 points per hit (or like 36), and have 1000 hit points.

That and it's really big and red, making it really easy to see and hit.

The game was made so that their free flying ability would make them harder to hit, particularly with missiles, since a miss will send the missile on a different height. In the middle of a low hall or room this gives them little or no benefit, but in more open spaces they get an advantage. Disabling autoaim will more or less ruin this game functionality, because you can target their height while not worrying if you're aiming accurately on the horizontal plane. Additionally, the Cacodemon isn't very big; 56 high (like the marine) and 31 wide (A Mancubus is wider, a Baron less so.) I'm not sure if some engines change this by adjusting proportions to the sprite surfaces, though.

I've seen it getting it's ass kicked by a chaingunner about a hundred times.

Naturally the Chaingun is pretty good against Cacodemons because of the rate of fire against their pain chance, but a Heavy weapon dude will rarely survive against a Cacodemon in a fight from scratch (where the Caco doesn't start wounded), especially if there's enough space; a Cacodemon stuck in a confined area could be in trouble in such a fight.

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Most annoying: Hmm, revenants esp too many in an open area or in platforms far away in a room. I keep strafing their rockets but they are homing back to me. I have a hard time killing them while strafing to later lead the packed rockets in a wall nearby me. If that pack of rockets hit me, I get a big damage. Then chaingunners, especially in masses, far away, hidden ones.

The Best: I'd say archville too. But then I also love Cacodemons because they are just soo funny! Mancubus get the third place here..

The Worse: It's hard to pick, maybe SS soldiers, then lost souls or Spectres.

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To Myk: Played 8 Years of Doom2 after my dad's friend gave me a bunch of his games. I originally played Duke Nukem, but instantly stopped once I got my hands on Doom 2. I usually get to run awa from the archviles. But yeah, the Barons of Hell does do little damage.

Ad for not getting killed by Archviles. That changed today after I got friend by four of them in my own map. =(

Never really bothered shooting rockets at flying things. I learned that from playing Duke 3d and seeing how the rockets suck in that game.

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The best: Archie. No question about it.

The worst: Lost souls, not a problem unless there's very many of them.

Most annoying: The revenant, it's activation sound is enough.

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Best - Toss-up between the Arch-Vile and Death Wyvern (although these can be a pain to get to work properly)
Worst - Nazis, the Godwin's Law of mapmaking
Most Annoying - Revenant, with the chaingun guy a close second

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The best monster: Cacodemon (Mancubus is number two for me) - Cacodemons can be very cool element in levels with lots of height differences. Cacoes rising from pits and shooting from outside areas through windows = Good. They're useless in cramped levels, though.

The worst monsters: Maybe Spectre - They add nothing new and are annoying when used on so dark areas that it's impossible to see them. Fortunately some clever designer added IDBEHOLDL for those situations.

The most annoying monster: Archvile - Don't get me wrong. They can create lots of interesting gameplay, but they're also some of the most abused monsters. It's not fun to clean an arena full of monsters and do it all again after the level designer decides to teleport 10 archviles into there later.

Archies can be pretty cool when used properly. And they make some cool tricks possible.

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The best: the archvile

The worst: ss-nazi

The most annoying: chaingunners in large numbers or at an distance slowly picking away at your health.

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Best: Either Arch-Vile or Mancubus. I've had alot of fun fights with both.

Worst: Either SS-Nazi (its practically useless) or Pain Elementals (too unbalanced and annoying. And when the 20 lost soul limit is hit they become totally useless and just get in the way)

Most Annoying: ...Pain Elementals. No explanation should be needed.

On a side note I've actually found some Revenant fights to be fun.

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The best monster is the Arch-Vile, in my opinion: I agree with what several Doomers wrote about it! ;)
The worst one is the Revenant: if you haven''t got the proper weapon to kill him, he kills you very soon! :[
The most annoying is surely the Pain Elemental: you know why - it makes you waste lot of ammo! :P

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Best: Cyberdemon! The most fearsome of all...
Worst: Pain Elemental, spawns Lost souls, which leads to...
Most annoying: Lost soul! Stupid, lame, dumb, stupid, DUMB! I just hate them. Take too many shots for what they are and are just so annoying to deal with.

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yay: hell knight. perfect middlemonster

nay: revenant. the way they're used CONSTANTLY makes me want to vomit

ugh: archvile. singularly most annoying. also suffers revenant-placement crap

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rf` said:

ugh: archvile. singularly most annoying. also suffers revenant-placement crap


Huzzah! Someone else doesn't like them.

I don't know if I'd give it the annoying slot (that goes to the Pain Elemental) but I think I'd happily give it the worst slot.

The only things I like about it are its hahaha sound (which is a double edged sword because when I hear that I know I'm going to find one and it will probably be a part of the map I don't enjoy much as a result) and the fact it has loads of frames. Not too important now, but in the old dehacked days a monster, that I could happily live without, giving me all those extra frames to play with was a real bonus.

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Best monster: Arch-Vile, when used properly. One or two per level is usually all that's necessary, any more would be a complete waste and with all those resurrections I'd be fighting monsters ad nauseum. Also, a well-placed AV should have the following characteristics: Relatively obscured as to surprise the player, at least one place for the player to crouch and attack (fighting an AV in the open isn't very fun) and if there are monsters in the vicinity try to limit those to imps and other weaker enemies. I don't want to fight three barons and a couple of arachnotrons all over again. At least I can get rid of imps in a couple of shotgun blasts apiece. JMHO.

Worst monster: Spider Mastermind. Just not a very imposing monster, particularly if you shoot it point-blank with a BFG. Hell, if you play your cards right, especially in Doom II maps 23 and 28, the Arachnotrons will kill it without you having to fire a single shot. And believe it or not, I've witnessed a Baron take down the SM in E3M8 once without any help. I think it got stuck somehow and couldn't fight back, can't remember the exact circumstances. I think the SM would be more deadly if it were armed with a super shotgun or something - a single, powerful blast that would be absolutely devastating at close range.

Most annoying: Pain Elemental/Lost Soul. The only good thing about PMs is that they have no attack by themselves. But after they unleash 4-5 Souls then the fight gets rather dicey. It's even worse when I'm fighting multiple PMs... I usually have to use my BFG to kill the PMs then use the SSG or chaingun to finish the Souls.

Most underrated: Imp. If you're fighting 4-5 in dark, cramped quarters they can inflict some serious damage. Their strength lies in packs and well-placed imps can be just as devastating, if not more so, than fighting a Baron one-on-one.

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Best Monster: Spider Mastermind, fairly easy to skirt around, but once it locks that chaingun on you, it's a hell of time to get out of.

Worst Monster: By far the lost soul, individually, it's a ramming target, in groups, still not a huge challenge.

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  • The best monster is the one you just killed
  • The worst monster is the one that's stuck somewhere it can't be killed
  • The most annoying is the one that just killed you!

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BEST MONSTER

The Archvile by far because it's amazing that he takes only 4 rockets to die but still manages to intimidate me more than a Cyberdemon who takes about 11 times as much.
The Archvile is a perfectly balanced monster and by far the most versatile. If used correctly, he can add so much to the map's gameplay. His flames do more damage than any other enemy's projectile(except a Cyberdemon's rocket), he has 100% accuracy within in his line of sight and his szie and speed make him even harder to kill.
The fact that he can ressurect dead monsters makes him the centre of attraction. Also, his flame attack does not spark retaliation, so in case of friendly fire, once an enemy projectile hits an Archvile, the Archvile will start attacking the other foe and will eventually kill them. This can be useful, particularly against a herd of cyberdemons when you have limited ammo.

The Baron Of Hell is another great monster and in my opinion, should have been better. He is the strongest of the non-boss enemies and he is is one of the very few monsters that actually look like they're from hell. The roar he makes when he sees you sounds cool and so is his death cry. Nothing makes him so much different from an imp except that he's much stronger, his plasma is quicker and more devastating and his scratches are infinitely as devastating. I know how tough the Baron of Hell already is in the game, but I think he should have been made tougher.

WORST MONSTER

1) Cacodemon

There's no doubt the Cacodemon can really spice up open areas with his awesome appearance and his amazing ability to fly but he seems to be one of the most imbalanced monsters in the game. He has very less Hit Points, so it's very easy to kill him, his fireballs do just about the same damage as that of an imp though he can bite enemies at close range, he doesn't manage to inflict much damage, which makes him lame. Sometimes, enemy firepower forces him to move backward and shiver, which prevents him from retaliating properly. The Cacodemon should have either had better firepower or more health points.
The same would have held true for the Pain Elemental but thanks to it's unique ability to spit out Lost Souls, the monster seems to put up some challenge. Still, on the Doom95 engine, once the Lost Soul limit of 20 has been reached, they're completely defenceless. Also, if you stand right next to a Pain Elemental, it will not be able to spit out Lost souls and hence you will not be harmed and you can take it down quickly.

2) Spider Mastermind

iD really screwed this guy up. He was supposed to the mastermind behind the invasion of the moon bases, and also the toughest boss. But he is not. He takes relatively lesser damage than a Cyberdemon and his chaingun, which can be devastating at close range doesn't seem to be a threat from a distance. His size makes him an easy target and it is due to this that he is very slow moving and cannot maneuver himself properly, which often results in him getting stuck and killed by much weaker enemies. I think they should have given him either a BFG, Super Shotgun(how would that look?) or at least a Plasma Rifle which would have made him much tougher, perhaps the toughest.

MOST ANNOYING

All Humans(pistolguy, shotgunguy, chaingunner) because it's easier to avoid projectiles of the more advanced enemies but it's impossible to avoid their attacks, especially the chaingunners, when they're at sniping positions very far away with unlimited ammo whereas you can either not target them or simply can't afford to waste so much ammo.

Revenants

Their homing fireballs cannot be avoided easily by just strafing and they do dish out a lot of damage and these suckers are quite agile and thin, which make them hard to kill.

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Ok I'm here to defend the Cacodemon. Have you all played Dwars? That game where you summon the doom monsters and have them fight for you. The Cacodemon is hands down the best monster to play through the single player levels in that game. Especially with only starting mana.

The caco's come at a low cost, they don't take damage from each other and they can get to any monster they need to very quickly. Face it caco's are the flying imps. You get a nice swarm of caco's going in on a target and they can clean house.

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.Best monster - Cyberdemon. A real challenge.
.Worst monster - The Archvile. No doubts.
.Moust annoying - Lost soul and Pain Elemental. Equally (it's the same hmm.. group actually)

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Best is Archvile, they have cool scary sounds, cool scary looks and cool scary attacks... which should make some little burning damage before the final explosion...

Worst monster is Commander Keen or the Boss Brain things... The Commmander Keen could at least try to bite you if you're stupid enough to go near it... The Boss Brain should have been some cool big Archcyberspidermancubusarachnotrondemonvile with some crazy attacks :D

The most annoying enemy is the other player with supershotgun in DM...

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Best: Spidermind (obviously)
Worst: Hell Knight (too weak for his size)
Annoying: Pain Elementals or Chaingunners (I dunno why, they just are)

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Suckiest: Oh, definitely the demon. It's not the weakest creature, but a horde of demons is much less threatening than a horde of soldiers or imps, even though they have less hit points. The demons are pretty much the only enemies that have little to no chance of causing you damage if you chainsaw them to death.

Most Annoying: Definitely pain elementals. At a distance, these suckers can be particularly merciless, especially if there's a lot of other creatures to take care of first. I mean, just get a small group of them in a large area and it quickly becomes hectic.

Best: The revenant. He's always been a personal favorite of mine, with the archvile coming in a close second. Revenants are fast and up close they can whup some ass, especially in groups. Spider masterminds are more powerful, but can be easily taken down since they're slow as snails. Cyberdemons can be easily avoided in large areas, and are clumsy due to their size (plus their rockets don't have homing capabilities).

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Best: Heresiarch
Annoying: Baron of Hell(in large groups)
Suckiest: Cyberdemon: (you can easily outrun him(provided there's space of course....))

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Best: Cacodemon - Even when I'm old and senile, the Cacodemon will still be the golden representation of what is DooM.

Worst: Cyberdemon - Just plain shitty in that it can't hit anything given a big enough area.

Most Annoying: Where do I begin?
Arch Vile: High damage, no-miss, attack (unless you have cover).
Pain Elemental: Not that these are difficult to kill, they're just huge ammo wasters, trying to blast passed the lost souls.

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GoatLord said:

Suckiest: Oh, definitely the demon. It's not the weakest creature, but a horde of demons is much less threatening than a horde of soldiers or imps, even though they have less hit points. The demons are pretty much the only enemies that have little to no chance of causing you damage if you chainsaw them to death.

Back in the day, before the super shotgun and before people were adept or brave enough at chainsawing, demons and spectres seemed to pose a much bigger threat than they do now. Being swamped by them could be a real problem. When Doom2 came out, one of the funniest things was to allow a demon to charge all the way down a long corridor towards you, only for you to knock him down with a single supershotty shot as he reached you.

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