Community Projects

[Dittohead]

RjY said:

Can we just agree to disagree and stay out of each others' threads so to avoid having to have two copies of the forums to segregate the factions..?

I didn't recall this conversation coming to blows like you've described. So far this discussion has remained open and not hostile. I don't think anyone is trying to change anybody's opinion, but rather open their mind to the idea of the other side.

[Macro11_1]

Tormentor667 said:
I still don't understand why so many community projects are bopping out lately of the nothingness. And beyond, why do they always have to stick on DOOM2 or DOOM and the vanilla engine?!

Good question, unfortunately all I think anyone can give, including my self is ither a biased answer, an opinion/view, or references.

Tormentor667 said:
Why don't you guys think about something new, new resources, new concepts, to make a new thing? I was disappointed by the NDCP as I was disappointed by many maps from the CC2,... the only maps that were really impressive were those, that showed off something new and innovative.

When I read this, the first thing that I thought of was "Where do new ideas come from" When pondering this, i came to the conclusion of from thinking upon what we know. That cant be right though, so where do they come from? well, you get the idea.

Anyways, to now actually attempt to say something about the question. There are many answers, firstly I think people don't do something new because what you are describing are textures and artwork. Now just think, can every one do art? Yes, but does every one do art? No, why? because its a skill, and not every one wants to practice.

To be innovative with MAPPING, would to be to change the rules of how the game works in the map editor. Currently its going from A to B, with minor switch/maze/key/door/teleporter puzzles. Now think of how you can Expand on that simply (like perhaps cyber dreams, or that wad that had multipull exits and paths.) and you have a new innovation. The innovation is like (at least to me) Inventing something or improving something.

in·no·va·tion

n 1: a creation (a new device or process) 
resulting from study and experimentation [syn: invention] 
2: the creation of something in the mind [syn: invention, excogitation, conception, design] 
3: the act of starting something for the first time;
 introducing something new; "she looked forward to her initiation as an adult";
 "the foundation of a new scientific society"; "he regards the fork as a modern introduction" )

I hope this helps your thoughts :) Good day everyone
refference for dictionary tearm:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=innovation
[Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University]

[DooMAD]

Everyone has their own particular style of mapping. It's probably best to look for nuances within those styles, rather than blanket labelling everything as uninnovative. Things don't have to be radically different in order to be interesting, just a different use of an existing idea can be enough.

When you take a completely random assortment of mappers, each with their own ideas and styles, it's probable that most of them won't be making something truly innovative, yet still being similar enough to the other maps to retain a consistent theme. That's not to say such maps aren't worth playing, you just need to broaden your definition of "innovative".

As for sticking to the vanilla engine, CC3 was going to be for ZDoom. For reasons beyond my understanding, it flopped horrendously. Personally, I would have liked to see it finished. Using a different port isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it seems that everyone needs to be on the same wavelength to make a successful collaboration.

[SyntherAugustus]

Torm I guess you didn't run into my thread yet on ye ol zdoom forums.

http://forum.zdoom.org/potato.php?t=9318&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Tormentor667]

DooMAD said:

As for sticking to the vanilla engine, CC3 was going to be for ZDoom. For reasons beyond my understanding, it flopped horrendously. Personally, I would have liked to see it finished. Using a different port isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it seems that everyone needs to be on the same wavelength to make a successful collaboration.

I think the problem wasn't the fact, that it sticked to ZDoom, I think the problem was, that it has been the third CC and well... after 2 original efforts, an idea gets uninteresting and mappers begin to concentrate again on their own maps and projects, you know?!

[DooMAD]

For anyone who has missed it, NDCP 2 is underway and all the mapslots are filled. It's Boom compatible, but again it's hard to say how many Boom features will actually be used and, if so, whether it will be in an innovative way.

It's intended to have two new monsters, though this may prove difficult with limited sprite frames to play with, and an effort has been made to have continuity in the theming between levels. Mappers are also encouraged to use custom music, as several complaints were made about not doing that in the first one.

I'm inclined to believe that things wouldn't be progressing as quickly as they are if the second NDCP had been developed for Legacy, as had originally been planned. This is why specific ports aren't a good idea for community projects. At least with Boom, although fairly common these days, a project is certain to attract more mappers.

If you want something truly unique and innovative, the sad fact is that it's more likely to come from an individual project rather than a group effort.