"Ultimate Torment & Torture" Progress Report

[Glassyman]

I'm sure: only for the screenshots it'll be a masterpiece.

[Tormentor667]

Graf Zahl said:

You know, I think Tormentor can try what he wants. There will always be some idiots here that will dismiss all his work on sight because they think it's cool to do so.

This is what I've thought right now...

@Craig - First at all I didn't want to respond to this because I thought it's better to avoid your comment as it seems that Graf Zahl is right what he says, but though I do. If you have ever played TNT3 you should know - as Vader already stated - about this place and the freedom to choose where to go. Same goes to the "hallway" in screenshot 1 (it isn't even one considering the layout of this room and the connections there) and the "hallway" in screenshot 4 that is actually a little chapel (or sth. like that) filled with hellspawn. If you consider all these 4 screenshots as hallways or hyper-detailed hallways, you really have to consider every single doom map as hallway :P

Oh yeah, and this is for you guys:

A little overview of my latest corridor/hallway creation with lots of useless and utterly shit detail, missing gameplay and typical 667 linearity :P

[Hobbs]

Tormentor667 said:

@Craig (and Tango as well) - First at all I didn't want to respond to this because....

How is Tango's post anymore than a statement? All the post contains was a sentence that says what he saw. I see no criticism, no insult, nothing like that, so would you care to find it for me? Or was it just not the praise you think you should get?

[kristus]

Tormentor667 said:

Now something for everyone who starts to complain about corridors and hallways:[/b]
As far as I know, previous Torment & Torture Episodes didn't have that overusage of hallways Sapphire and Austertiy had and the finished unreleased Torment & Torture Episode 4 hasn't as well.

Actually...
I've only played TNT3 any considerable length of the TNT maps. But it's not really different from Sapphire or Austerity, sure it do have that huge cavern in the middle that is rather nice. But before that you got.

Small open space - Narrow rock path - small square room with crates in it and a square shaped hallway on each side - Small room - hallway - Rock path - short hallway - rock path - narrow base path in a trident shape - larger square room with crates in it and staircase down to next room and staircase up to square shaped hallway - hallways in two directions, one with a square shaped hallway with stairs that lead to a smaller circled arena with a hallway following around it, one with a straigh hallway with platforms following on both sides - on to a smaller hallway, then a square shaped staircase/hallway.

Broken down, you can say it's "square room, hallway, square room." And just because you make one larger room where you can choose a few different paths to go, doesn't mean that the map is nonlinear.

But, if that's what you like, then go for it. Just don't expect it to be for everyone.

[Tormentor667]

@Kristus - If you simplify that you might be right with TNT3 Map01 to the point where you enter the cave, but that is something that was intended, as I wanted to give the player the feeling that he "climbs down" the mountain again towards the Fortress of Damnation and this is only achievable if you have several linear parts in your map that makes you actually cover a certain distance. But nor TNT1 neither TNT2 or even LE has such a part so there is still enough variety throughout UTNT, even between MAP01 and MAP02 of TNT3, am I right?

@Hobbs -

[kristus]

Don't know, I didn't play TNT1 past the first room TBH, was rather long ago I tried it, so I can't recall much from it, the only other TNT wad I got any memory from is TNT:LE, which started in that lava lake place and then went into the wall and around in a bunch of hallways where there were guys with railguns that I got sick of so I quit playing it. :/

[Tormentor667]

Well, I'd be happy if you could try both and then give me some more feedback on that, just to know if I'm right or not

[esselfortium]

[quote deleted, red. Mordeth]

Seriously though, here's some constructive criticism. The last batch of shots you posted up are visually pleasing, that is true. But don't stop reading there. Despite having lots of borders, pretty lights, fog, and other details, it looks like predominantly hallways and other flat (gameplay-wise, not appearance-wise) stuff. What I mean by flat is, like, okay, you've got a deep abyss underneath your bridge, and you've got some raised borders and lots of ceiling height changes, and you probably have some stairs or something somewhere, but it would be possible to recreate most of the areas using one big 128-high sector and the gameplay would be exactly the same. That's an extreme example and it's probably not correct, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Try using height changes in a way that contributes to interesting gameplay, rather than just looking pretty. (It is possible to do both at the same time!)

I'm just saying this based on your last batch of screenshots, so I could be completely wrong here. Anyway, hope these suggestions are of some help.

*sucks dick, drowns with praise*

[Craigs]

esselfortium said:

Oh sweet, I love being cool on the internet!

Seriously though, here's some constructive criticism. The last batch of shots you posted up are visually pleasing, that is true. But don't stop reading there. Despite having lots of borders, pretty lights, fog, and other details, it looks like predominantly hallways and other flat (gameplay-wise, not appearance-wise) stuff. What I mean by flat is, like, okay, you've got a deep abyss underneath your bridge, and you've got some raised borders and lots of ceiling height changes, and you probably have some stairs or something somewhere, but it would be possible to recreate most of the areas using one big 128-high sector and the gameplay would be exactly the same. That's an extreme example and it's probably not correct, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Try using height changes in a way that contributes to interesting gameplay, rather than just looking pretty. (It is possible to do both at the same time!)

I'm just saying this based on your last batch of screenshots, so I could be completely wrong here. Anyway, hope these suggestions are of some help.

*sucks dick, drowns with praise*

That's basically what I was saying. It looks good. I like the atmosphere of the cavern, it looks rusted and rather worn down with broken bridges, rusted grates on the floor, and old crates, but that's about it. From what I can see as far as gameplay goes, the player crosses that bridge, and then goes through a crate maze. As far as I can tell by the screenshots, you can't go explore the more natural terrain, and are confined to a path and forced to admire all of this work from a distance.

[Tormentor667]

Craigs said:

You really don't understand what I was saying do you. I'm not anti corridor or anything like that [..]

Erm... I didn't talk to you in that moment and I understood what you have said, maybe I have some room left where I can change things in this cavern area (and possibly other areas as well depending on the situation)

[Mordeth]

Unfortunately, I just had to spend some of my valuable time to prune this thread. The next person who makes me waste more time will be very sorry indeed.

A discussion is fine, but keep it civil. Throwing insults at eachother is not the way to do that.

[Tormentor667]

Little News: Torment & Torture Episode 3 Map01 is completely done, proceeding now with Map02 but that should go quite fast ;)

[Antidote]

Tormentor667 said:

Little News: Torment & Torture Episode 3 Map01 is completely done, proceeding now with Map02 but that should go quite fast ;)

Don't go too fast so you don't make it suck.

[ragnew]

Man oh man, some people are just born to bitch. I think it looks pretty damn good Torm. Look forward to playing it.

[The Lag]

well, hell, it's looking like it has a ton of ambience and i like that a lot.
but i better not put too much time into this post cos this one'll probably get deleted too.

[Antidote]

ragnew said:

Man oh man, some people are just born to bitch. I think it looks pretty damn good Torm. Look forward to playing it.

Not bitching. I'm just making a comment. I really like Torm's maps, I just don't want a rushed map2.

[kristus]

There's an enormous difference between "going fast" and "rushing" something.

[Antidote]

Well, I always get the two mixed up. My fault.

[Tormentor667]

kristus said:

There's an enormous difference between "going fast" and "rushing" something.

Exactly ;)

[cactus]

Much of you don't know me,
I watch all the progresses of the community since years now
and weekly test all your wads.
I never post, but for Torm's ultimate torment and torture,
I'd make an effort.
I'd say I like his eye-candy style, I really liked the torment and torture series, and I am expecting a lot of his new stuff.

[Tormentor667]

Thx, sounds honoring for me :)

[ragnew]

Antidote said:

Not bitching. I'm just making a comment. I really like Torm's maps, I just don't want a rushed map2.

No, no, I wasn't saying you were bitching Antidote. I was just stating the fact that several members on the board seem to do it no matter what. Especially where Torm. is concerned.

[Tormentor667]

Yeah, good news:
Ultimate Torment & Torture nears completion!

Torment & Torture 3 is finally done, now the only things left to do are simple bugfixes in TNT:LE and the Boss Arena in TNT4 (also final beta tests, but that shouldn't take too long!) Stay tuned! ;)

[Vermil]

I don't know why, but using that texture on the right side of the portal looks a bit odd to me. I guess it's because some of the symbols are arrowed shaped.

[Tormentor667]

Never thought of that... I always thought this is some kind of rune... or whatever... :)

[kristus]

They are used as arrows in DE1

[Tormentor667]

Well, that's a bad coincidence but I don't think that I will change that... I mean,... it's a rune, who cares if it looks like an arrow?! :)

BTW, here is a very interesting status report on The Ultimate Torment & Torture: I have worked all day long on Episode 1, Episode 2 and Episode 3 they are now completely finished! :) From my point of view they are visually finished and the Ultra Violence skill setting is balanced for every single map in these Episodes, wether you play them
from the startmap or after each other. Coop support should also work as I haven't found any places where things could be difficult. The only thing left to do is beta-tests and other skill settings.

Beyond with Solarsnowfalls incredible help, I could also enhance many special effects ingame and I have also added lots of new and nifty features that make things easier (for example camera walls - over are the times of searching for the right door ;)). The last thing to work on now is Torment & Torture LE and the final Torment & Torture 4 Boss Area (as well as the TITLEMAP, CREDITSMAP is already done)... so let's see how this looks in a little summary:

OVERVIEW
--------------
EPISODE 1
MAP01 = 98%
EPISODE 2
MAP01 = 98%
EPISODE 3
MAP01A = 98%
MAP01B = 98%
MAP02 = 98%
LOST EPISODE
MAP01 = 80%
EPISODE 4
MAP01 = 95%
MAP02 = 92%
MAP03 = 90%
RESOURCE OVERALL = 98%
--------------
MAKES UP FOR AN OVERALL STATUS OF: 94,5%

...sounds promising, doesn't it?! :)

[Csonicgo]

is it 94 percent or 5 ?

*runs*

[kristus]

AFAIK, only enlish speaking countries use the period instead of the comma when they define values smaller than 1.

This is however accepted as standard in most computer programs, since they are most of the time from english places. So people that use a Swedish keyboard for instance, has to hop back and forth when writing figures into programs or scripts just to use that stupid period instead of the comma that is on the keypad to the left of the keyboard.

[quakis]

Brilliant work so far. I like some of the colour contrasts in some of those shots (orange lava, white snow, etc) Some good use of detail and tidy design. Looking forward to the release.