Compet-N: incoming and discussion, part 1 [please post in part 2 instead]

[Revved]

Alien Vendetta
UV Respawn
Map 30 in 1:06

Another lazy table-filler, don't watch.

ar30-106.zip

[Looper]

Doom 2
Map 31
UV Speed/Pacifist
Time: 0:29
Engine: Doom v1.9

lv31-029.zip

[Memfis]

Hmm, what exactly is that door trick you're writing about in .txt?

[Looper]

Memfis said:

Hmm, what exactly is that door trick you're writing about in .txt?

Soldier opens door

[Revved]

Alien Vendetta
UV Fast
Map 31 in 9:53

af31-953.zip

[Revved]

Memento Mori
UV Fast
Map 31 in 17:32

mm311732.zip

[Revved]

Alien Vendetta
UV Fast
Map 19 in 16:55

af191655.zip

[Looper]

DooM II v1.9
Episode 1 UV Speed
Time: 05:44

Well, here it is again. EP1 record which I thought was a failed demo.
Now the crap is cut, so this is DSDA material :)
I think previous record was 6:32 if not counting my uv30 :p and new minute barrier is broken.

0544uv01.zip

[Revved]

Memento Mori 2
UV Fast
Secret Map 2 in 14:00

-----------------------------------------------------------
Wow, this actually makes the WAD the first Compet-N PWAD
to have its UV Fast table filled! :D

I should probably start some sort of team to finish
the remaining Compet-N UV Fasts, which there are 18
undone -fasts of all the PWADS. For comparison, this is
how many MM2 fasts were undone in May 2010 (including
secret levels)

m2s21400.zip

[Revved]

Requiem
UV Fast
Map 17 in 14:24

rf171424.zip

[Revved]

Requiem
UV Fast
Map 29 in 20:15
-------------------
16 UV Fasts left! :D

rf292015.zip

[Revved]

Memento Mori
UV Fast
Map 29 in 18:39

--------------------------------------
The second Compet-N PWAD
to have it's UV Fast tables filled! :D

mm291839.zip

[Looper]

I have no idea which are the undone -fast runs. I would like to make one tablefiller :p

[Revved]

Paska said:

I have no idea which are the undone -fast runs. I would like to make one tablefiller :p

Well, I can list them off for you.

Alien Vendetta
MAP 11 (Nemesis)
MAP 16 (Mutual Destruction)
MAP 26 (Dark Dome)
MAP 27 (Stench of Evil)
MAP 28 (Whispering Shadows)
MAP 29 (Fire Walk With Me)
MAP 32 (No Guts No Glory)

Classic Episode
E2M6 (Outpost 666)
E2M8 (Evil Refinery)
E2M9 (Dissension)

Hell Revealed
MAP 23 (Ascending to the Stars)
MAP 26 (Afterlife)
MAP 30 (Hell Revealed)

Requiem
MAP 15 (Last Resort)
MAP 27 (Cursed Kingdom)

As far as I know, af29 and af32 have been done,
but the former isn't for Compet-N, and the latter was on the first
version, which desyncs with the newer version.

hf26 has also been done, but it wasn't for Compet-N
as there was a ghost that couldn't be killed anyway.

I think the easiest ones should be av11, the Classic Episode demos, and rq15.
The harder ones should be hr26, rq27, av28, av29 and av32.
The REALLY difficult ones IMO are hr23, hr30, av16, av26 and av27.

[Qaatar]

For af29, unless you can improve upon TOD's time and/or show off a different route, I really don't see the point in recording a C-N "table filler" demo just for the sake of having that tag. I would think that improving upon a TOD demo would no longer qualify as "table filling." :)

[SAV88]

I agree with Qaatar's post, and I also must add that none of the known-to-me levels which are possible to get 100% kills/secrets on regular UV can be rated as "impossible" in the UV-Fast mode. With defensive approaches, there is practically always a reliable way to clean the groups of fast monsters and exit the level (even in ultra-tough maps like Scythe MAP30 or HR2 MAP32). Surviving an UV-Fast run at a decent pace of playing can be 100 or more times harder than just executing it cautiously without worrying about the time (an example is Requiem MAP08), but still I'm sure that the HR MAP23 UV-Fast challenge can be humanly done MUCH faster than in Peo's old TAS demo.

EDIT: BTW, nice job on MM MAP29! But "16:xx" can't be "optimal". The Doom physics certainly allow to clean this level in the UV -Fast mode in under 10 minutes (not only in theory, but even for a human, with enough effort).

[Revved]

SAV88 said:

I agree with Qaatar's post, and I also must add that none of the known-to-me levels which are possible to get 100% kills/secrets on regular UV can be rated as "impossible" in the UV-Fast mode. With defensive approaches, there is practically always a reliable way to clean the groups of fast monsters and exit the level (even in ultra-tough maps like Scythe MAP30 or HR2 MAP32). Surviving an UV-Fast run at a decent pace of playing can be 100 or more times harder than just executing it cautiously without worrying about the time (an example is Requiem MAP08), but still I'm sure that the HR MAP23 UV-Fast challenge can be humanly done MUCH faster than in Peo's old TAS demo.

EDIT: BTW, nice job on MM MAP29! But "16:xx" can't be "optimal". The Doom physics certainly allow to clean this level in the UV -Fast mode in under 10 minutes (not only in theory, but even for a human, with enough effort).

To me, sometimes, even defensive approaches can't help you.
Take hr30 for example. Monsters are shooting at you from every corner
with no safe place to hide, and trying to kill them all won't help
because monsters are constantly spawning. Some godly player like
you wouldn't call this impossible because they'd have more experience
and would just call this "a tough challenge.

As for the comments on MM29, thanks! I guess I really overestimate
in comparison to your thoughts.
It's just that my thoughts differ in
many ways, because a normal player like me would say it's optimal if I was trying to improve it.
I don't know everything, so compared to you, my time estimates
are probably something an early 90s speedrunner would determine.

[SAV88]

Revved said:

...
I don't know everything, so compared to you, my time estimates
are probably something an early 90s speedrunner would determine.

Still, you have greater speed/strength of playing than the leading UV-Fast masters had in 1996-1997 (for example, your record on Plutonia MAP18 is 2:12, while Yonatan had 4:18). 6-7 years ago, when I started breaking Compet-N records, I played slower than you. And if you have enough motivation, you can progress to the most modern, most "godly" level sooner or later.

Anyway, keep up the action! AV11 and RQ15 would be sweet to see, just like RQ29.

[Revved]

SAV88 said:

AV11 and RQ15 would be sweet to see, just like RQ29.

Well, you got one part of that granted.

Requiem
UV Fast
Map 15 in 17:21
-------------------------------------------------
Now, there's only one -fast left to do for
Requiem, and that's Map 27, Cursed Kingdom. This
should be pretty hard to do due to the lack of
ammo in the level. Maybe once vdgg finishes that
rq27 Max he's been talking about, he'll work on this. :)

rf151721.zip

[vdgg]

Wait, wait... who recorded an Episode 3 Max run? ;)

[SAV88]

Revved said:

Now, there's only one -fast left to do for
Requiem, and that's Map 27, Cursed Kingdom. This
should be pretty hard to do due to the lack of
ammo in the level.

Level 27 is actually not that low on ammo (unlike 24). DMTHA's hitpoints/ammo ratio (102%) is misleading, as it's calculated assuming that one shell does 7 hitpoints, and one cell does 2. But SSG and BFG do much more damage per one shell/cell than regular shotgun and plasma rifle. Well, Kai in 1997 still found it hard to maintain the ammo, but today, when we know better techniques of SSG/BFG usage (not to mention the infight usage), it won't be a particular problem. And I think that the amount of powerups and room to maneuver makes level 27 easier than 24 and 29.

[Revved]

Well, because you guys wanted it.....


Requiem
UV Fast
Map 27 in 23:43

-----------------------------------------------
I should probably calm down, I've already
completed 3 UV Fast tables within 9 days!

rf272343.zip

[kmc]

NVM I made a mistake while recording, that demo is invalid sorry.

[Angus Thermopyle]

Revved said:

I should probably calm down, I've already
completed 3 UV Fast tables within 9 days!

No, please continue. That's great stuff! I'm checking these forums every morning in hope that there's another -fast C-N demo from Revved :)

[kmc]

This time I did it right I think...Classic Episode E2M1 UV(Not HMP LOL)-Respawn in 1:45.

cr21-145.zip

[kmc]

Alien Vendetta Map 01 UV-Respawn in 1:14.

ar01-114.zip

[Ryback]

Hell Revealed map 23 -fast, in 21:14.

hf232114.zip

[evocalvin]

that's an excellent achievement !!!!
great job, Raback

[SAV88]

Yet another nice surprise from previous generations! An interesting demo with clever strategies.

Ryback said:

A time under Peo's TAS is very achievable here - just with more efficient ammo usage, no need to even alter the route - but I'll leave that to someone else.

Should be a fun challenge for Revved, who recorded a similar demo on a semi-reminiscent level, AV14.

[Looper]

Ryback said:

Hell Revealed map 23 -fast, in 21:14.

Cool! I was working on the same run, but didn't put much effort in it yet, luckily. Only made it once to the chaingunner trap and died :) The tactic you used was nearly the same except at the beginning I went straight to the blue armor secret and made some monster infights behind the secret door because I lost my nerves after dying once to the arch-vile :-D I guess your way is faster.

I'm not sure, but in the last room I think it's possible to kill the arch-viles quick by shooting 1-2 rockets to the left side then simply lean to the opposite wall and shoot another 1-2 rockets to the right side and so on. At least it would make rockets flying constantly, but it might be too risky. Anyways nice and entertaining run. I'm not gonna improve it if someone wonders.