Compet-N: incoming and discussion, part 1 [please post in part 2 instead]

[Archy]

Plutonia
UV Tyson
Map 11 in 5:35

pt11-535.zip

[Revved]

Memento Mori
UV Fast
Map 16 in 11:42

Previous record: 14:44 by Ryback

mm161142.zip

[Mr.TF]

Archy said:

Please show it Mr.TF, we all know my demos are the ugliest, so don't feel shy....
But in all seriousness, I would like to see the demo if you don't mind.

Uhmmm, that was 4:20, but on the same day i did a 4:19. Quite lucky day... :) The later run is much more decent, but it has a big failure, which causes ~17 secs loss. My goal is to go below 4:00, but since I do not have too much time for Doom, i don't know, when will it happen :(.

Might I send the lmp in an email to you?

[Looper]

Mr.TF said:

I just did an ep4-0419 (ultimate doom) a few minutes ago, but the run is so ugly, i just cant share it, lol

Just stay quiet then...

Well, maybe I can't say so, but IMO kinda lame to say you have WR and then post no demo :p

[vdgg]

MM, MAP13 (The Inmost Dens II by Denis Moeller), UV Max in 7:32

mm13-732.zip

[SAV88]

vdgg said:

The previous record was a rare example of an "intended route" Compet-N Max. Just beating it was not a problem - many tricks were used by Oyvind himself in his UV Speed demo. I got some 7:5x with survivors or 8:0x with 100% kills, so the time surprised me - it's not a great demo in my opinion.

Still, sweet to see a major improvement on a classic WAD. And I must say that a Compet-N max record with far-from-optimized route and performance is not a rare thing at all. Even from stx-Vile's MM maxes, at least one is beatable for you.

[vdgg]

Thank you SAV88, but if you're referring to mm28, I shall pass for now :) Not again this monster map with 200 switches which I already forgot what they are activating. Maybe I'll try mm14 which was always my favourite from the WAD.

Here's MM MAP13 (still) UV -fast in 10:12

mm131012.zip

[Mr.TF]

Paska said:

Just stay quiet then...

Well, maybe I can't say so, but IMO kinda lame to say you have WR and then post no demo :p

Sorry, my first success made me so excited, because the idea of this run came more than 2 year ago (I was never able to gain enought free time and inspiration to do it).

[Archy]

Ok Mr.TF:
[My email was here]

Don't worry, I wont share it.
Thanks :)!

[vdgg]

MM2, MAP18 (Regulate by Matthias Worch), UV -fast in 12:15 and Respawn in 8:36

m218.zip

[vdgg]

Some tiny improvements over Xit's MM2 UV speed demos
MAP07 (Frustration by David Kuykendall), UV Speed in 2:52
MAP11 (Sewer Shutdown by Eric Sargent), UV Speed in 1:59

Edit: getting back to the topic of the undone UV -fasts, Plutonia MAP15 doesn't have a "proper" UV -fast demo. Do you think would it be possible to beat Demonlord's 2:39 time and kill every monster?

more_mm2.zip

[Revved]

Memento Mori
UV Fast
Map 26 in 4:45

mm26f445.zip

[SAV88]

Revved said:

Memento Mori
UV Fast
Map 26 in 4:45

Nice optimization effort! Doing these serious, thorough improvements over old UV-Fast records (RF11-333, MM161142, MM26f445) definitely makes you progress in skill and speed. It seems that you are ready to compete with ToD's AV29 time in the UV-Fast category.

[vdgg]

MM2, MAP07 (Frustration by David Kuykendall), Pacifist in 6:13

m207p613.zip

[Revved]

Classic Episode
UV Fast
E2M9 in 9:07
------------------------------------------
Well, that takes care of Classic Episode.
All that's left now is Alien Vendetta
and Hell Revealed. The uncompleted levels
are av26, av27, av28, av29, hr26 and hr30.
Anybody want to try?

cf29-907.zip

[vdgg]

MM2, MAP15 (The Devils Coterie by Adam Windsor), UV Speed in 2:50 and UV Speed - secret exit in 2:51

m215.zip

[Revved]

Memento Mori
UV Fast
Map 21 in 13:16

mm211316.zip

[vdgg]

Beating myself in UV -fast, MM2 MAP25

m2251507.zip

[vdgg]

AV, MAP28 (Whispering Shadows by Anders Johnsen), UV -fast in 27:45

af282745.zip

[Looper]

Hell Revealed
Map30
UV -Fast
Time: 2:27
DooM v1.9

Wasn't that hard after proper tactic :p

hf30-227.zip

[Ryback]

Great demo, the solution seems so simple now you've shown it :) And that's all of Hell Revealed done -fast style now.

[Looper]

I tried hell revealed map26 -fast but demo desyncs. Is this common case in this level?

Edit: Nevermind, works fine with the vanilla playback.

[Searcher]

Af28 - Really nice job vdgg! I just love map 28. Some really cool low health moments.

[Looper]

Hell Revealed Map 26
UV -Fast
Time: 38:24
DooM v1.9

I was wondering what you meant with your last post Ryback. I thought you forgot map26. I tried to find your demo from doomedsda and compet-n records and so on.

After I got this run and began to type .txt, your post came up to my mind again. I did deeper search and found your demo, but it was missing one monster so I guess it wasn't really accepted as a compet-n record? I hope this is a valid run because there's no way to kill those 4 monsters. (Well, mancubus wallclipping shots did hit the arch-viles once but it would be just stupid)

hf263824.zip

[Revved]

Paska said:

Hell Revealed Map 26
UV -Fast
Time: 38:24
DooM v1.9

I was wondering what you meant with your last post Ryback. I thought you forgot map26. I tried to find your demo from doomedsda and compet-n records and so on.

After I got this run and began to type .txt, your post came up to my mind again. I did deeper search and found your demo, but it was missing one monster so I guess it wasn't really accepted as a compet-n record? I hope this is a valid run because there's no way to kill those 4 monsters. (Well, mancubus wallclipping shots did hit the arch-viles once but it would be just stupid)

As far as I know, it is. Looking at vdgg's Compet-N tables, it shows that 424/428 monsters is accepted in terms of 100% kill categories. Checking without smart totals in PrBoom Plus, I still saw 4 monsters left (the arch-viles). So yes, it is a valid run. :)

Now there are only 3 -Fast runs left, and those are for Alien Vendetta. The maps in question are Map 26, Map 27, and Map 29. If you've checked the "Failed demo attempts" thread, you'll know that Map 26 is possible, I just ended screwing up the last part is all, but using savegames, it still can be done. Map 27 might be a bit long and tedious, but I think that if one puts enough effort into it, it can be done as well. As for Map 29, well, certainly it can be done if TimeOfDeath can do it. If I were to try it however, I certainly wouldn't be trying to beat the record, just filling tables (to Qaatar's dismay)

[SAV88]

If you could get 4:45 on MM MAP26 and 13:16 on MM MAP21, then ToD's time on AV MAP29 is by NO means out of reach for you -- his 9:19 is far from his excellent regular UV time, and very, very far from human optimal.

And, in my humble opinion, simply filling a Compet-N gap on a level which already has a complete vanilla-compatible UV-Fast demo (even without a formal "Compet-N" mark) is just an uninteresting bureaucratic work :-) Competing with a record by a great player is much more fun, and with a feasible effort you definitely can do it on AV's 29th level.

[vdgg]

I think there's a kind of a psychological barrier here - you respect some players so much you don't feel you can compete with their records, regardless of their quality. I remember my endless struggles against Xit Vono's m232 Tyson ("faster than Xit in this category? impossible!" - I had this in my mind...). Or, to quote another keyboarder,
In summer 2005 I returned to it. At that time I was proud to be slightly faster than AdamW in MAP16 and AdamH in MAP18, but could not beat anything by Rudy Jurjako. I spent many hours running like hell to the exit of MAP09, but my succesful tries resulted in disappointing times like 6:55. It seemed that Rudy's level of speed (6:21) is out of reach for me.

[SAV88]

Yes, VDGG, I remembered that in such a far past Rudy Jurjako seemed like an unbeatable monster-of-a-god for me. A bit later I thought the same about stx-Vile. But now I have no such "unbeatable idols" at all, even though I keep greatly respecting many old and new players.

[Looper]

Hmm, does this count? There's spider alive but it was resurrected by arch-vile (I might have misunderstood Revved), so I left him rot there :P Was my first exit, heh.

"UV -fast is a Compet-N speedrunning category. The objective is to finish the level as quickly as possible, in Ultra-Violence with the -fast parameter, killing every monster at least once, except lost souls, and collecting 100% secrets."
That paragraph doesn't mean that everyone has to be dead when you exit? Or do you still have to kill the resurrected monsters again?

mm26f437.zip

[emailking]

The way it reads, there is certainly nothing to imply that any monster must be dead at the exit. However the way it reads is apparently not what the writer of those words meant by them, nor is it the way most people have played max/fast/tyson. With the exception of certain difficult/impossible to reach monsters, all monsters (save lost souls) that are present at the beginning of the level must be dead at the end.