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andrewgold

ZDaemon or Skulltag?

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Which do you prefer?

I prefer Skulltag, because it has far more features. The problem is, there's pretty much no Australian servers for Skulltag.

I am banned on ZDaemon. I haven't gotten around to asking why I was banned.

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Skulltag.

Because: Bots, Oldschool mode, Skulltag gametype, new weapons (>:]) , runes, more monsters and a more friendly community.

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I don't really feel any inclination to pay attention to Skulltag. ZDaemon is okay, though, as it has many players, including the better ones, plus a good deal of classic servers, and as a result it outputs some good demos at Challenge-TV.

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I'm a ZDaemon guy.
I like the way it feels as opposed to Skulltag. It feels less bloated, has a larger playerbase with alot of different types of servers, and keeps getting better and better with time (although it takes centuries)...
Yeah, it might be lacking alot of features, but it has enough.
I've given skulltag quite a few chances, but I can't get into it.

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Doomsday != (ZDaemon || Skulltag)

Well he gave very limited options and I wanted to say What I thought was best.
Now annoying person, mind your own business

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KuriKai said:

Now jackass, mind your own business

Don't make comments like this again.

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Such questions of preference in this target demographic tend to incite forum rioting eventually.

Unfortunately neither is a real viable option in my opinion if you're looking for a complete package. I suppose skulltag would be the better choice because it more completely supports additional games like heretic and hexen and it has a fairly faithful "oldschool mode". Unfortunately the application has been given extra an unncessary baggage from inane user requests. If you're looking for the place with more players, then for now zdaemon is your better choice. ZDaemon has aquired so much politics and community distaste however that put a strain on certain aspects. Only time will tell if an alternative solution becomes available.

O

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Mancubus II said:
ZDaemon has aquired so much politics and community distaste however that put a strain on certain aspects.

This is a misleading clique thing, I believe; especially considering the amount of people that use ZDaemon, or support it through servers and input. You could say the same thing about Doomworld's reputation; people in other places say it's nasty, and it may well be tied to a competitive nature (in both Doomworld and ZDaemon.) I've been among the first to criticize ZDaemon for this or that move; but often the "bad reputation" in some places comes from people intent specifically on doing "politics" in regard to online gaming or projects, and then losing their position due to differences or shifts in direction, or their own mistakes, especially in the long run. Lots of bla bla and bullshit without any real meaning (at least compared to playing and the development of an online engine.)

ZDaemon may have its quirks and glitches like any popular thing; but precisely its bent on playing per se and forming a community of sorts for DOOM players to meet at have made it worthwhile.

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myk said:

This is a misleading clique thing, I believe; especially considering the amount of people that use ZDaemon, or support it through servers and input. You could say the same thing about Doomworld's reputation; people in other places say it's nasty, and it may well be tied to a competitive nature (in both Doomworld and ZDaemon.) I've been among the first to criticize ZDaemon for this or that move; but often the "bad reputation" in some places comes from people intent specifically on doing "politics" in regard to online gaming or projects, and then losing their position due to differences or shifts in direction, or their own mistakes, especially in the long run. Lots of bla bla and bullshit without any real meaning (at least compared to playing and the development of an online engine.)

ZDaemon may have its quirks and glitches like any popular thing; but precisely its bent on playing per se and forming a community of sorts for DOOM players to meet at have made it worthwhile.

Yes it was certainly worthwile at some point. I have not lost any position anywhere nor do I care to play the politics. My comments are based on close observations and discussions and are not simply heresay and "bad reputation". If it were simply that I would not regard it.

There have been very valid positive reasons to use either one listed in this thread so far.

Of course why tie yourself down? The beauty of doom is that it comes in different flavors!

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A client/server version of Chocolate Doom would be interesting. I suspect not having player names and the oldschool nature might eliminate some of the bullshit.

On topic, I prefer Skulltag over Zdaemon, but even the former had too much politics and overblown egos for my liking. I would probably still play it under an anonymous name, though, if it ran on linux. Single player and bots work fine under Wine (with a native dinput.dll), but joining a server does not.

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Mancubus II said:
I have not lost any position anywhere nor do I care to play the politics.

Why the personal stuff?

My comments are based on close observations and discussions and are not simply heresay and "bad reputation". If it were simply that I would not regard it.

You may have this or that insight, and it's natural that your experience move you to be here or there, do this or that, but a vague statement is indistinguishable from generic hearsay, and it contributes to it, and "politics".

exp(x) said:
A client/server version of Chocolate Doom would be interesting.

Hmm? I'm quite a classic-purist, but I don't think that would attract many users, nor would it be a suitable interface for public games. The classic settings in existing engines pretty much offer that, anyway.

I suspect not having player names and the oldschool nature might eliminate some of the bullshit.

Any FPS with a master server needs player names, unless all the games are to be anonymous (between green, indigo, brown, and red), and that'd be quite retarded.

but even the former had too much politics and overblown egos for my liking.

The only places where issues can really occur is IRC channels, and in regard to development more so than playing the game, or where people blather too much for their own good, or get into project or channel politics; in the servers people just play and say "gg" for the most part, and players are mostly familiar with each other, so unless they're new, dumb, or something, they kind of know each other's limits and don't get into bullshit often, and stick to the kinds of servers they prefer.

This thread is already more full of shit than 95% of the games I've played online, and it's not like this thread is hurting me. I'd have to be quite a bitch to even care about "politics" in regard to playing, let alone not playing something due to "politics and bullshit", unless I were full of them.

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I've been playing Zdaemon since 2004 i think, and i love it. A lot of servers, lots of oldschool maps, CTF, but i never got around to skulltag. I'm always on #zdplayers if im not playing zdaemon. Recently theres been a lot of cheating at zdaemon i think cuz Raider started posting warnings and he cancelled all tourneys altogether until version 1.09. But i stick to zdaemon because of CTF mostly, and Brit11 FFA.

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What Manc said. I would respond to myk's posts but he'll just shrug them off in the exact same fashion as ZDaemon staff do.

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deathz0r said:
I would respond to myk's posts but he'll just shrug them off in the exact same fashion as ZDaemon staff do.

Heh, good one. Though not if you talk about specific points and issues. I think it's likely that I agree with Mancubus II (maybe you too?) about a number of problems related to ZDaemon, but it really gets pointless often how these are handled in general, especially since the current issues kind of started back during CSDoom or even before, and in some cases things have deteriorated further. Yet many arguments about ZDaemon or also ZDaemon/Skulltag turn into idiotic tribal mud slinging and such. Nor did Manc fling mud or even aim to further that sort of thing; yet these subjects are either dealt with practically and to the point, or else they just mingle with the crap that they so easily get mired up with.

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myk said:

I think it's likely that I agree with Mancubus II (maybe you too?) about a number of problems related to ZDaemon, but it really gets pointless often how these are handled in general, especially since the current issues kind of started back during CSDoom or even before, and in some cases things have deteriorated further.

I guess I misinterpreted your original reply to Manc. I thought you were dismissing Manc's points about ZDaemon politics, which are true and I strongly stand by that conclusion.

DooMaD said:

Why limit yourself to one or the other?

Because I'm permbanned from one for getting knee deep into politics, more or less. Take a stab at which port I'm referring to.

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deathz0r said:
I guess I misinterpreted your original reply to Manc. I thought you were dismissing Manc's points about ZDaemon politics, which are true and I strongly stand by that conclusion.

That wasn't my best post ever, as dismissing the issue would be a mistake; but the question is how to deal with what's going on. For example, the other thread Cacodemon started about an exploit might bring up some more substantial or practical talk.

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Neither. Skulltag's physics feel floaty, and he has done SOMETHING to the mouse code that makes precise aiming like swingshots impossible. Plus as I've played more and more doom I've come to resent 'feature creep', and Skulltag has trademark ZDoom overdetailing of the maps, tons of new guns, and more gametypes than you can shake a stick at (Honestly, has anyone actually PLAYED skulltag? Not just the port, the gametype.) Ironic, then, that it has the better oldschool implimentation, but since its community is largely Doomworld denizens that happen to like multiplayer (very few), there are very few people playing overall.

Unfortuniatly, the prediction in ZDaemon is flawed to the point where it's impossible to walk in a straight line without getting jerked around by the server who thinks it has a better idea of where you should be than you do. I recall talking with Kilgore about how jerky Z movement in previous versions was caused by disagreement between the client and server about where the player actually is. And apparently he 'fixed' it by forcing a serverside override of player positioning. Though we can't know because THERE IS NO SOURCE TO REFER TO!!! Oh, and pressing a switch on a high ping server and watching an elevator come down is a riot too. It's jerky as fuck, and yet it was actually WORSE in earler versions, becuase it would just instnatly move the sector....except you couldn't walk on to it until it 'arrived'. And of course the community of ZDaemon is total ass. If the Doom Community was the internet, ZDaemon is AOL, catering to the lowest common denominator of player in order to boast about it's fairly large playerbase, run by complete morons, and years behind the rest of the world. The only thing ZDaemon has going for it are the awesome CTF maps, and that's going to be irrelivant anyway with the re-released CTF Standard version of the map pack.

If I had to recomend one, I'd say go with Skulltag, as it doesn't force the community down your throat.

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There seem to be different types of people in the current Doom community:

-Noobs: Enough said. Bitch about everything, ranging from "Stupid unprotected respawn!" to "You are a BFG noob, let's do SSG only."
-Dedicated Players: "PLAYERX, game?"...after a good game..."GG." Does not get involved in silly politics or forum drama/trolling.
-Purists/Oldschoolers
-Stupid purists: After they get raped on a port (whether ST or ZD), they go "I want to see you in EXE...see how you'd do" or "uhhh! I hate the concept of ping zomg!"

I can go on forever about the different types of people, but the idea is simple: In any melting-pot (aka diverse) type of community or society, you are bound to have conflict and disagreement. It seems that the playing aspect in all ports have taken a backseat to allow for more forum/IRC action. So, in essence, the current incarnations of DooM are more about keyboard warriors hiding behind screen names than a good round of FFA or 1-on-1.

One cannot do much about the "noobs," but what about the supposedly experienced players, oldschoolers, or purists when they start acting retarded? If it's not one thing, it's the other: "Ew, I hate the uncapped FPS in ST" or "ZD's blood brightness is bs!" Granted, things about the engines that you expect to be functional or non-buggy (like AlexMax mentioned) should be discussed, but even in that particular discussion, developers go apeshit because someone is judging their port--there again is the fact that the place is not idiot-free. I have seen more examples of the previous statement in ZD more than in ST.

I guess the thing that strikes me as funny is how people like to boast their DooM status (whether as developer, player, legend, etc)yet at the moment of truth, DooM is thrown out the window in favor of *drumroll* so-called politics.

That said, I prefer ST.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans" <-- This is for you people (noone in particular) who bitch excessively about ports. If you play on a port, expect things to be different. Otherwise, install win98 and Kahn--end of story.

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Chaindude said:

..."Ew, I hate the uncapped FPS in ST"...

cl_capfps 1 is your friend.
Skulltag feels 'floaty' only because of the uncapped framerate. I just suggest to enable the capped framerate and see how it goes.

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Heh, I know Raz--that was just to emphasize how the complaining aspect gets in the way of a little menu surfing.

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