Chocolate Doom multiplayer

[fraggle]

Hi,

I already posted this in the "Source ports" forum and there was a thread on the front page of Doomworld about it, but I'm posting this here incase anyone hasn't seen it already.

I've recently rewritten the multiplayer code for my source port, Chocolate Doom. I'm currently looking for people to test this out.

The gameplay is intended to be identical to the original DOS version. However, under the hood there are a number of technical improvements when compared to the original source. One of these is that I've tried to fix the "Indigo lag" problem that plagues people using the original DOS versions.

I've had lots of useful feedback already, but I'm looking in particular for more feedback from more hardcore players. A difficult problem I'm trying to approach is trying to get the "feel" of the game right.

There is a page on the website describing how to set up a multiplayer game using Chocolate Doom. If you use IRC, you can join #chocolate-doom on irc.oftc.net.

Thanks!

[myk]

fraggle said:
One of these is that I've tried to fix the "Indigo lag" problem that plagues people using the original DOS versions.

Well, isn't that an incompatibility with Doom? People often play two games, switching player colors to get the full picture.

I'm not saying you should ditch the improved code, but technically without the lag you're producing games unlike Doom's. You can't compare a 1-on-1 Chocolate Doom recording to a Doom2 recording because relatively speaking the players (1 and 2, etc.) don't behave the same way. Maybe there could be a chocolate-doom.cfg option to switch between old and new code?

[fraggle]

myk said:

Well, isn't that an incompatibility with Doom? People often play two games, switching player colors to get the full picture.

I'm not saying you should ditch the improved code, but technically without the lag you're producing games unlike Doom's. You can't compare a 1-on-1 Chocolate Doom recording to a Doom2 recording because relatively speaking the players (1 and 2, etc.) don't behave the same way. Maybe there could be a chocolate-doom.cfg option to switch between old and new code?

I see your point, and it's something I've thought about in the past.

The indigo lag thing is one area where Chocolate Doom is different from Vanilla Doom. I prefer to look at potential changes from the view of "who would want this?". For example, it is useful to maintain the original visplanes limit because level developers might want to use Chocolate Doom to test their levels. If they find it doesn't work, then it's almost certain that it won't work in Vanilla, either.

Indigo lag is a different kind of problem. I can't think of a reason why anyone would intentionally want a game where the lag is unfairly skewed to the advantage of one particular player. In fact, many separate people have told me that they would like to see it fixed. That said, if there are people that genuinely do want an unbalanced game, I'll consider adding the original behavior back as an option.

In the end, it's a change that doesn't affect the core Doom gameplay, and I think that the advantages of having this fixed outweigh the potential "purist" concerns of differing behavior.

[DevastatioN]

Indigo lag *******ely should be fixed for competitive reasons, however the players should STILL be able to switch, for the openings reason.

[fraggle]

DevastatioN said:

Indigo lag *******ely should be fixed for competitive reasons, however the players should STILL be able to switch, for the openings reason.

What do you mean by "openings reason"?

[myk]

fraggle said:
That said, if there are people that genuinely do want an unbalanced game, I'll consider adding the original behavior back as an option.

I don't really see that lag as a problem usually, it's just another quirk of the game. The only drawback is that it forces two games per tournament or "serious" competition, for it to be fair and easy to judge. I agree the fix is perfectly sensible, and should be in there (even as default for general convenience) but don't see why the original code can't be kept, just like the standard demo mouse-turning limitation and the lower 320x200 resolution are kept alongside the "v1.91" fix and 640x400 res.

A player may well want to know how well he performs with the Indigo limitation, having watched Doom2 demos and seen it, but won't be able to without the lag.

[fraggle]

myk said:

just like the standard demo mouse-turning limitation and the lower 320x200 resolution are kept alongside the "v1.91" fix and 640x400 res.

It isn't really equivalent: 1.9 demos are needed for compatibility because they are the 1.9 demo format. ie. 1.91 demos are incompatible with Doom 1.9. As for the 640x400 mode, there is no real difference to 320x200: it's exactly the same, but doubled up by 2. 640x400 support is there as a workaround for people whose graphics cards don't support the original resolution.

However, it seems like there might be support for having the old behavior. I'll consider adding it back as a configuration option, although why anyone would want to use it is beyond my understanding :-)

[myk]

fraggle said:
What do you mean by "openings reason"?

When you load a map in DeathMatch mode the Players start in fixed locations. In Map01, for example, Green is atop the entrance balcony, and Indigo in the passage between the first room and the Chaingun corner.

[fraggle]

fraggle said:

However, it seems like there might be support for having the old behavior. I'll consider adding it back as a configuration option, although why anyone would want to use it is beyond my understanding :-)

I've done this. You can now specify -oldsync to play using the Vanilla player sync code.

myk said:

When you load a map in DeathMatch mode the Players start in fixed locations. In Map01, for example, Green is atop the entrance balcony, and Indigo in the passage between the first room and the Chaingun corner.

You can actually sort of do this already, by starting a dedicated server. The order in which players connect determines their color in the game.

I could maybe add a -notplayer1 option to allow players to force themselves not to be green. Sersetup has "-player1", but I don't really want to support this because it means anyone can come into a game and force themselves to be player 1.

[myk]

fraggle said:
I've done this.

Cool!

You can actually sort of do this already, by starting a dedicated server. The order in which players connect determines their color in the game.

Yeah, I was just explaining what DevastatioN meant.

Sersetup has "-player1", but I don't really want to support this because it means anyone can come into a game and force themselves to be player 1.

The IPXSetup modified for CTFDoom (I use it for Doom2) adds a -player command where each connecting client can specify the number, though naturally it uses "-nodes" along with it, predefining how many players there weill be before the connection is effected. Maybe something like this could be done?

[Revenant]

Are there any good dedicated servers for this yet? I'm interested in trying out multiplayer in Chocolate Doom.

Someone said that Oblacek was running one, but I can't find any info on it.

[myk]

Devin said:
Are there any good dedicated servers for this yet? I'm interested in trying out multiplayer in Chocolate Doom.

Not sure how that is possible; you would have to make some interface that says people are connected to it. The current server shows a box on the server's computer, but the clients connecting don't see anything, they simply type -connect IP into the command line. A "public server" seems to be more for a C/S specific offshoot of the engine though, with a launcher and all.

To try it out what you should do is tell a friend or fellow doomer and connect with them directly, following the instructions on the wiki.

[Draxamus]

There's a dedicated Oblacek server. Start zdaemon launcher and right click on an oblacek server to find the IP--uses the same IP for its chocolate-doom server. You still need to arrange for someone to join when you do. Also the first person joining a dedicated server needs to set all the flags (-deathmatch, -skill 5, -nomonsters, flags for pwads if you want etc). It won't work right unless both players live close to CZ though.

[abysmal]

I was on Doomwire this morning and had a quick match with someone. I know this program has tons of potential for setting up easy to find Chocolate games.

[fodders]

fraggle said:

I've done this. You can now specify -oldsync to play using the Vanilla player sync code.
You can actually sort of do this already, by starting a dedicated server. The order in which players connect determines their color in the game.

I could maybe add a -notplayer1 option to allow players to force themselves not to be green. Sersetup has "-player1", but I don't really want to support this because it means anyone can come into a game and force themselves to be player 1.

When I ran a Doomserv server most cheaters would specify -player2 as indigo seemed to have a 16 frag advantage in a 50 frag game
/EDIT
God I can't believe I wrote "doomserv", of course I meant Game Connection, it's been a while :)

[KuriKai]

does doomwire run on linux?

[myk]

fodders said:
When I ran a Doomserv server most cheaters would specify -player2 as indigo seemed to have a 16 frag advantage in a 50 frag game

ZDoom over TCP/IP would be different, though Doom2 over a TCP/IP tunnel does something like that; if the ping is high Indigo is less laggy that Green. (Though when it's low, Green is better.)