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invictius

final doom vs icarus

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Just wondering what you guys think of the quality between the two... considering one is a commercial product, I thought it might be more "polished"...

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IMO Icarus was pretty damn boring. I wasn't that big a fan of TNT either, but it was much more intresting to me. But Plutonia was really really good.

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The second half of Icarus was much better than Evilution, and in general there were more good maps in it than in TNT.

Plutonia is by far the best one of course.

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Belial said:

The second half of Icarus was much better than Evilution,


I never got that far. I think I killed myself in protest after 7 maps or so.

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Final DOOM all day, yeah Evilution while cool looks more like a pwad (still superior for me than Icarus), but Plutonia looks and plays as solid as Knee Deep in the Dead. And did you look the final map of Icarus? Looks like a begginer map.
Now if you compare Eternal DOOM and Final DOOM then it's other story, yet as ED uses many resources from other games, has a few poor maps (as far as I remember one or two), and absolutly random theme, one map futurist, other medieval, other both without any logic (FD shares a bit of this but in a very lesser way), I choose Final DOOM. For me it's one of the best wads ever created, if only id/GT putted more time on it (adding a new weapon, a few new monsters, levels splited in a diferent way rather than the DOOM 2 structure), it should be top noch.

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TeamTNT made Icarus after Evilution (despite it being released before it), and it is no surprise therefore that it is a better polished and all-round superior product. Icarus remains one of my favourite wads. It's not generally very difficult, but has excellent replay value - there are lots of ways to play each map. The design is coherent and mostly logical (and some maps are works of art). The multiplayer modifications are very interesting in some maps - at some point I'll find time to play it all the way through with -net1. Although it isn't central to the assessment of a wad, Icarus has original replacement music for all levels (which Final Doom lacked - partly for Evilution and entirely for Plutonia) - much of it excellent.

Evilution is a real mixed bag - some good (or very good) maps together with some paltry ones that feature absolutely no resistance standing between the player and the exit, and often bland design. Several of the larger maps seem kind of disjointed.

It's hard to compare Icarus with Plutonia, as they are so different. Certainly Plutonia is more consistent (a plus of having a smaller team), and has more intense gameplay, but lacks a certain charm and "cuteness". Personally, I haven't replayed it too much. However, it was an important stepping-stone towards later megawads such as HR, AV, etc., and certainly deserves its place in Doom's hall of fame.

BTW, if you want to compare these early(ish) megawads, then it would be natural to throw the MMs into the mix.

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kristus said:

IMO Icarus was pretty damn boring. I wasn't that big a fan of TNT either, but it was much more intresting to me. But Plutonia was really really good.

I hate to admit... but you're right :P

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Grazza said:
The multiplayer modifications are very interesting in some maps - at some point I'll find time to play it all the way through with -net1.

Or contact another British (or nearby) DOOM player and play Cooperative using Chocolate Doom or PrBoom!

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Plutonia is nothing but lines and shapes to me. I did like TNT better than Icarus though. There was a lot of where-the-hell-do-I-go in Icarus, that was its main problem. Just too slow.

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invictius said:
Plutonia reminds me too much of doom 1...

Lots of it has touches of DOOM II style. There are three maps in particular that seem to echo DOOM's themes; Map22, Map23 and Map25 (in order per episode.)

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Icarus is a far better Team TNT production than Evilution. There are more maps that hit the good mark, the gameplay overall is more polished, and the wad looks better. Had Icarus been made before Evilution (and been in Final Doom) I'm relatively sure the comments would be switched. Evilution was a learning experience.

Nothing however compares to Plutonia. Ignoring the fact its an IWAD, its simply the best megawad I (and many others) have ever played. Icarus certainly doesnt compare to it.

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Icarus and Evilution were simmilar, lotsa METAL2 themed maps and lots of varied themes throughout. But Icarus was better than Evilution. Christopher Buteau had an interesting opening map for Icarus, there were some neat effects and he had a good concept of a spaceship, the texturing was too varied. And the stars emerge once the ship is launched.

Plutonia was superb from start to finish, true Doom style. My favourite maps were MAP12, MAP18, MAP22, MAP23 and MAP27.

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All 3 WADs are great in their own right.

Evilution features some of the most interesting levels I'll remember. Steel Works, Pharoah and Metal are a few that I remember instantly. Secondly, Evilution has the best music. Moreover, the music really sets the mood for the levels.

Plutonia focusses more on gameplay and its difficulty setting is just perfect. Though I call myself a "seasoned veteran", this wad still gives me the creeps.. Obviously what's great about Plutonia is its difficulty, and that's what gives it its inspirational value. But in terms of gameplay, it isn't as frustrating as something like Hell Revealed. Dario and Milo must be two of the most skilled Doom Mappers ever(apart from id). And the maps just reflect that. If you look at maps from other "ultrahard" megawads, all you'll find is waves and waves of monsters thrown right away at the player just to make the maps tough. Plutonia is unique in that the authors were well aware of the strenghts and weaknesses of each monster and placed them accordingly in situations to create their maps instead of using the monster count to make their maps challenging. For example, it's easier to kill a Baron Of Hell in a large open area than to kill a Revenant despite the fact that the Baron is a much stronger monster. Of course, I am NOT saying Plutonia doesn't have army sized monster packs in its maps but it's been done well and is all balanced perfectly. The monster count isn't what makes Plutonia tough. Play map11 and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Icarus has a great theme and I like the way it retains it throughout. All maps offer great gameplay, replay value and though it's different than any other user-made megawad with totally new textures and music, the maps are fun. Of course, Map30 was a little too easy. But hey, does that really matter?

All three are great but Evilution and Icarus are just two other fan-based classic megawads for DoomII. If you look at them individually, instead of comparing them with other megawads, they're both solid and have their own style. They're not meant to be compared with other megawads. But Plutonia on the other hand was meant to be tough and has lot of inspirational value. Unlike the other two, Plutonia gives you no sense of progression as you go through its levels. I really think it was just supposed to be 32 difficult DoomII maps but they gave it a story because it was an official release.

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sundar said:Evilution features some of the most interesting levels I'll remember. Steel Works, Pharoah and Metal are a few that I remember instantly.


Mmmmmm..... Pharoah - the first time I ever felt "wow, I'm really there" in a game. It's a shame Carribean didn't feel more like the real-world location.

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True. Also in the original version of Pharoah, the yellow key is missing. So you can't beat the map without cheats.

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sundar said:

True. Also in the original version of Pharoah, the yellow key is missing. So you can't beat the map without cheats.


I'm sucky at figuring out getting to exits of maps anyway, so I put it down to that. Only just found out about the bug last week.

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Isn't Plutonia to Doom 2 as "Thy Flesh Consumed" (without the two lame missions) is to Doom 1? Sorry... I'm just starting the Plutonia episode.
Also, judging by the amount I've played TNT Evilution, I think it's better than Icarus, which looks (only so far) rather bland and overrealistic in map design (I don't see the point of pubs or pool halls in DOOM when there's no character interaction).

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Ebon said:
Isn't Plutonia to Doom 2 as "Thy Flesh Consumed" (without the two lame missions) is to Doom 1?

Maybe, depending on what you mean by that. Thy Flesh Consumed was inserted right after DOOM (and right before DOOM II) and Plutonia was inserted after Hell on Earth. They are both PWAD-like additions, but one was made by a couple of id guys with the help of a couple of amateur level designers, and the other by two brothers from Team TNT.

By the way, what are these "lame missions" are you mention?

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myk said:

By the way, what are these "lame missions" are you mention?


The two "lame missions"? :)
I guess they're E4M4 and E4M5. They're too easy, tame and short when compared to levels 2, 6 or even 3. Maybe E4M7 too--but it looked cool.
Now I'm on topic. Why I think "Plutonia" resembles "Consumed"? Levels 1, 2, 3 and 6. They were challenging the first time, weren't they?

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