All of id's engines.

[signofzeta]

Out of all these id games made by id only,

Wolf 3d
Doom
Doom II
Quake
Quake II
Quake III
Quake III team arena
Doom 3

which games here belong to which engine?

Now, does Doom II get it's own engine or is it the doom engine? I hear some people say that there is a Doom II engine, but that could be wrong

Also I have seen some references to a quake III team arena engine. Is that a separate engine or is it actually made from the regular quake III engine?

I also found out that for every FPS id makes there is a FPS that raven makes.

Doom Heretic
Doom 2 Hexen
Quake Hexen II
Quake II Soldier of Fortune
Quake III star trek elite force
Quake III team arena Soldier of Fortune II
Doom 3 Quake 4

[leileilol]

q3ta isn't seperate, it's a VERY common misconception among the gaming press. Team Arena offers nothing new engine-side.

Doom II is not seperate either.

http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4551

[caco_killer]

Who came up with the idea Doom 2 runs on a different engine? I have no idea how anyone could think that.

[AndrewB]

Doom 2 is the Doom engine, and I assume that Q3TA is the Q3 engine. Everything else is its own engine.

[signofzeta]

Also another question

Out of all the games we see on the id software site, which ones are DEVELOPED by id software including expansions?

Is this correct?

some vintage ones such as Keen series
wolf 3d
spear of destiny
Doom
Doom 2
Quake
Quake 2
Quake 3 arena
Quake 3 team arena
Doom 3

[myk]

signofzeta said:
Now, does Doom II get it's own engine or is it the doom engine? I hear some people say that there is a Doom II engine, but that could be wrong

DOOM and DOOM II had exactly the same executable file. Final DOOM and The Ultimate DOOM came with the same engine, but slightly hacked to allow info for the additional wads or levels. And then Doom95 is a port that pretty much works the same way as all these. But the two games have been integrated under a single engine since DOOM II came along.

[leileilol]

id did not develop the quake and quake2 missionpacks, those are the only exceptions

[Scuba Steve]

id didn't make the Gameboy Colour Keen.

[KennyJC]

Didn't Hexen II use Quake II's engine?

[boris]

KennyJC said:

Didn't Hexen II use Quake II's engine?

I'm pretty sure it uses the Quake 1 engine. Also, Hexen 2 was released before Quake 2.

[SyntherAugustus]

it was quake 1. says on the box!

Wouldn't be so pixelly if it was q2 now.

[signofzeta]

KennyJC said:

Didn't Hexen II use Quake II's engine?

I think that was heretic II.

[kristus]

gargoylol said:

q3ta isn't seperate, it's a VERY common misconception among the gaming press. Team Arena offers nothing new engine-side.

Quake3 TA offered a facelift of the engine that alowed for a much better support for outside areas. Something that was used a lot in RTCW. Commonly because of this people call it the Quake3 TA engine, eventhough it's still the Quake3 engine.

This is how it goes.
Commercial products using the id engines.

Keen engine - Dunno, I am sure there's some though.

Wolf3d engine - ROTT and possibly Shadowcaster.

Doom engine - heretic, hexen, strife, Hacx

Quake engine - Hexen 2, Half Life (and technically Half Life 2), Malice

Quake2 engine - Heretic 2, Daikatana, Half life (and technically Half Life 2), Soldier of Fortune, Jedi Knight (iirc)

Quake3 engine - RTWC, RTCW: Enemy territory, Alice, Jedi knight: Jedi Academy and Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast, SoF2, Elite Force1 and 2.

Doom3 engine - Quake4, Prey, Enemy territory: Strogg wars.

I probably missed some though.

[Technician]

Wolf3-D engine was also used for all capstone's abortions. Didn't Depth Dwellers use the Wolf3-D engine?

[Bloodshedder]

Blake Stone also used the Wolf3D engine, and I think Catacomb 3D did too. The ROTT engine is like the Wolf3D engine on steroids and hormonal treatment, so it's practically distinct enough to consider it its own engine.

Half-Life is, as you sort of stated, Quake with a bit of Quake 2 thrown in. But I'm fairly sure Jedi Knight didn't use any of the Quake engines. Anachronox used the Quake 2 engine.

Call of Duty used the Quake 3 engine, and so did Medal of Honor: Allied Assault.

[Technician]

This is where id makes its cash. Although I hate it when people say this but; Most of ids games are tech demos.

[Dimka]

Yep most are tech demos, and id usually lets other companies handle the "finer details" (i.e. gameplay, storeline, etc) such as Raven, Activistion, etc.

Even though it had been like that for a while now, DOOM III was a preety major departure and after finishing Quake IV, I didn't notice the storyline there being any more fleshed out than it has already been in DOOM III. Yep, the engine utilizaiton was definetly leaps and bounds ahead of DOOM III's mostly claustrophobic feeling, but the outdoor environments were nothing to write home about either...

Anyway, here's hoping that the latest iteration of the Unreal Engine will do a better job at adressing that.

[Sporku]

Calling their games "tech demos" just because they use the same engines that they're licensing to other companies is just stupid. I mean sure, you can call them tech demos in the sense that they may attract potential companies wanting to use the engine, but in my opinion the term "tech demo" is just something that shows off the engine, with no real aspect of gameplay.

In regards to Quake 4 and its utilization of the Doom 3 engine technology, I personally don't think it utilized the technology any better than Doom 3 did. In fact, I think there's some things it did worse than Doom 3 did. On the other hand, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars looks like it'll show what potential the Doom 3 engine really has.

[kristus]

Bloodshedder said:

Catacomb 3D did too.

Well, It was made by ID, but for softdisk. Also I think it was made before Wolf3d.

Calling id's games tech demos is idiotic. What exactly makes them into tech demos? The fact that none of them show off the true capabilties of the engine, or the fact that id invested a serious ammount of time in them?

A tech demo is a little game/demo reel that show off as much as the creators can think of with the engine. The time spent on this is a few months max.

The lost coast for Source, THAT is a tech demo.

The video shown of Doom3 at MacExpo was a tech demo.

Doom3, Quake3, Quake2, Quake Doom etc, these are games. Id worked hard on them. They are simple, simple doesn't constitute a tech demo, it's quite the opposite. Making your own engines that happen to rule the market, doesn't make your game into a tech demo.

[spank]

kristus said:
I probably missed some though.

Okay...

Keen engine - Dunno, I am sure there's some though.

A bunch of other Apogee platformers were based off this.

Wolf3d engine - ROTT and possibly Shadowcaster.

Also: Blake Stone, Planet Strike (BS1.5) and I'm pretty sure Corridor 7 and Operation Body Count's engines were based on it as well. Spear of Destiny is to Wolf3D what Doom 2 was to Doom so it doesn't count. Good call on Shadowcaster, I didn't remember that one :)

Doom engine - heretic, hexen, strife, Hacx

Chex Quest :P

Quake engine - Hexen 2, Half Life (and technically Half Life 2), Malice

That's pretty much it.

Quake2 engine - Heretic 2, Daikatana, Half life (and technically Half Life 2), Soldier of Fortune, Jedi Knight (iirc)

Also: Sin, Kingpin and Anachronox. Jedi Knight's engine was LucasArts' own.

Quake3 engine - RTWC, RTCW: Enemy territory, Alice, Jedi knight: Jedi Academy and Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast, SoF2, Elite Force1 and 2.

Also: FAKK2, the Medal of Honor series on PC and Call of Duty.

[Dr. Zin]

I think people call id's engines tech demos because they keep using the same formula over and over again.

You know, the lone soldier who must fight countless enemies and then kill a big boss to win the game. Not exactly the cutting edge of gameplay.

[Naked Snake]

Dr. Zin said:

I think people call id's engines tech demos because they keep using the same formula over and over again.

You know, the lone soldier who must fight countless enemies and then kill a big boss to win the game. Not exactly the cutting edge of gameplay.

Why not? Isn't that usually the point of an FPS game? Shoot angry shit because you have guns?

Angry shit trying to kill you + weapons = FPS game

[spank]

Don't forget it has to be in first person.

[CODOR]

kristus said:

Well, It was made by ID, but for softdisk. Also I think it was made before Wolf3d.

It was very similar to Wolf3D, but one difference I remember was that it ran in a 16-colour EGA mode (instead of 256-colour VGA).

Doom3, Quake3, Quake2, Quake Doom etc, these are games. Id worked hard on them.

I continue to come back to the id "tech-demos" years after I've stopped playing the "real" games that use the same engines...

[GooberMan]

kristus said:

Keen engine - Dunno, I am sure there's some though.

Bio Menace used the Keen 4 engine.

Shadowcaster

I remember reading back in the day that it used a half-way engine in between Wolf3D and Doom.

Quake2 engine

A little-known Raven game called Take No Prisoners also used it. A tank combat game also used the Q2 engine, but I can't remember its name.

[Murdoch]

Catacombs definitely predated Wolfenstein 3D. Heretic II was indeed a modified Quake II engine, and Hexen II was a modified Quake engine.

[leileilol]

GooberMan said:

A little-known Raven game called Take No Prisoners also used it. A tank combat game also used the Q2 engine, but I can't remember its name.

Necrodome, Take No Prisoners and Mageslayer uses Raven's own proprietary Icarus(is that the name?) engine which was slightly derived from their previous STEAM engine. No Quake/Doom code involved or even related.

Also while it's not very known, the action rpg Amulets & Armor uses a rather large portion of the Doom engine for the renderer, maps and base game logic.

kristus said:

Quake3 TA offered a facelift of the engine that alowed for a much better support for outside areas. Something that was used a lot in RTCW. Commonly because of this people call it the Quake3 TA engine, eventhough it's still the Quake3 engine.

It's merely a compiler improvement rather than engine, like it didn't take any engine changes for Q3MAP2 to implement skyrooms and celshading, either.

[Dr. Zin]

Gaylen Spladd said:

Why not? Isn't that usually the point of an FPS game? Shoot angry shit because you have guns?

Angry shit trying to kill you + weapons = FPS game

Maybe I should be more specific. After Doom id never really seemed to advance the gameplay component of their products. It all kind of has that "Kill shit, walk around, kill more shit, get a key, kill even more shit, open a locked door," style of play. They never added any aspect above a simple key hunt. Besides some flimsy backstory to why you are on a rampage, there is no motivation or objective to what you are doing. Mind you, I haven't played Doom 3, but I heard it is pretty much the same way.

Besides Doom, id games don't hold my interest. I only am involved in Doom because of the capability to make my own add-ons, really.

Other games really grabbed my, and forced me to sit down and play them. I am not terribly fond of Half-Life (too buggy and the ending didn't fit and was shitty), but I played all the way through it in about a week, because the urge to see what was around the next corner drew me in.

I started playing Goldeneye long before Doom, and I still enjoy running through the levels. Just this year I played through Deus Ex, and I cannot describe how much that kicked ass.

Even though they aren't FPS's, I have to give the nod to Starcraft and Mechwarrior 2 for being action oriented games that were able to generate a level of interest that superceeded just the draw of the combat.

Quake 2 was the only id game besides Doom that drew me in, but even then it didn't really last, because it is just Doom in space. And that is the feeling I get from all of id's games. Quake was Doom in full 3d, Quake 2 was Doom with pretty colors, Quake 3 was Doom deathmatch modernized, Doom 3 was Doom retold (duh). Id seems to love pushing their engines, but the do that at the expense of the game content.

[baronofhell]

Quake 2 was Doom in space? Doom took place in space as well. heh, just thought I'd point that out.

[kristus]

It's pretty arrogant to make such a statment. Just because you don't like the games doesn't mean that they are tech demos. I don't like Civilisation games, nor am I very fond of RTS games like Starcraft as you just mentioned as a great game. It bores the crap out of me. I played a few maps, and then I never wanted to play it ever again. Does that make them into "tech demos"?

The best games I know are the ones that are simplest. Myst, Syndicate, Doom, Quake2 and Doom3 to name a few. I've played through all these games a number of times.

I never played through Half Life, after months of playing to get through it I got into a room where I were pummeled by those 3 legged creatures and I ended up giving up on it. Mind you that Half Life and Half Life 2 aren't much more than Doom or Quake ever was. They just had more bells and wistles.

That id makes their own engines and then sell them to other companies makes them clever. Had they not sold them, noone had ever thought about the idea that they were making "tech demos".