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KennyJC

Man, what a productive day [my next level]

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I've made a start on my next level and it's all designed on paper and I think it's a good layout etc.. Almost finished the first two rooms which you can see below... Looks pretty good, huh? Could this map even please the snobs of the wadding community? :D

Those who played my last wad will notice there is a section that was blantantly copied and pasted from that, into this level. But it's effective...

Learning the copy and paste function also came in useful while trying to perfect that bloody staircase... Simply made half the room, and copy, pasted and flipped the other half :D

Preview 1
Preview 2
Preview 3

Man it's almost 3am and I have to be up for work at 7am... Maybe I will keep mapping till then :D

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Looks sufficient. The layout is gonna be the deciding factor.

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Bah, the screenshots dont excite me, the map looks bland.

However, if the gameplay r0x the aesthetics dont really matter.

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Bah, the screenshots dont excite me, the map looks bland.


Don't panic. There's still a bit of detail to be added to those rooms.

Although I don't want to over-do it with gimmicky crap. I want it to be a map that wouldn't look out of place in the Doom2 IWAD, which is a tough challenge.

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KennyJC said:

I want it to be a map that wouldn't look out of place in the Doom2 IWAD, which is a tough challenge.


Hehe, be glad you're not doing this.

Make sure you get a really nice sky for this level too, I can see that is going to be very important, besides the layout. Skies are pretty hard to find IMO, but if you need some I've got an old zip file from doomboy lying around with like 20 night skys I can pass. You can probably ask around or check some wikis too, I imagine. Or stick with default if you really must.

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Make sure you get a really nice sky for this level too


Yes I was thinking the same. There is gonna be a lot of sky.

I was thinking of a sort of sunset thing with clouds. Not too bright and not too dark.

If you got an url for a bunch of skies I can choose from or have some you want to e-mail, then feel free to share.

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Looks nice, maps like this allways are a pleasure. I assume you're adding light variations. Just a question why you don't take the screenshots in game?

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Looks nice, maps like this allways are a pleasure. I assume you're adding light variations. Just a question why you don't take the screenshots in game?


Yeah light variations will be added. I just keep it fullbright until the end or else I can't see anything in 3d mode. Perhaps they should add a fullbright option in 3d mode like the one in Slade...

I don't think it matters taking screenies in the game or the editor at this stage. The level never really looks good in Doom with fullbright and GL, plus you can't hover to get a nice angled pic :)

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KennyJC said:

Yeah light variations will be added. I just keep it fullbright until the end or else I can't see anything in 3d mode. Perhaps they should add a fullbright option in 3d mode like the one in Slade...


There is one, try pressing B in 3D mode.

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KennyJC said:

...plus you can't hover to get a nice angled pic :)

In ZDoom, type 'fly' in the console.

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In ZDoom, type 'fly' in the console.


Why would I want to use ZDoom? :D

There is one, try pressing B in 3D mode.


I thought there probably might be one. Although, I expected it to be in 3d mode prefferences... Don't tell me it's there too? Heh.

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Epyo said:

Hehe, be glad you're not doing this.

Exactly why I hate doing rocky areas in maps. I'm surprised nobody's coded a rock-area general which fits into a user-selection portion of map with variables like jaggedness/size/height.

One nice thing about Eternity's portals is that I can draw the ceiling and floor in separate areas and avoid mirror-images without having to worry about the overlap difference.

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Hey, Doom Community snob here ;) I can tell by looking at the screenshots that you got a good eye for layout. If you can detail, light, and make gameplay as pleasing you got me interested. That last screenshot has a lot of promise if done correctly! Good luck.

KennyJC said:
I want it to be a map that wouldn't look out of place in the Doom2 IWAD, which is a tough challenge.

Doom2's levels were pretty ugly, save for maybe a couple, IMO.

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Well, some detail has been added to those rooms since, and I think they are pretty much complete except for light, things, and maybe a couple of pillars to go along the long grey path on the other side of the pond of blood... If it looks good then the pillars will stay. Also a couple of (in my mind) cool looking windows running along near the top of each side of the staircase looking into rooms you will be in later...

As for being bland. I really don't agree. Even those screenshots above, I think they are cool looking rooms and to add too many textures and too much sectors and stuff might ruin it.

I am pretty much basing my influence for this map solidly on the maps Romero made for Doom2, and I think so far what I have is similar.

I don't know how Romero's maps compare with wads considered good that are released today though. Perhaps you can recommend some for me to have a look at as I am out of touch with the wadding community..

My general opinion from what I've seen though is that they go OTT with details and gimmicks which detract from levels. As you can tell I like vintage, and less can be more :D

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KennyJC said:

As for being bland. I really don't agree. Even those screenshots above, I think they are cool looking rooms and to add too many textures and too much sectors and stuff might ruin it.

I still think that those area aren't cool at all as they look in those screenshots. :P On the contrary, I think that adding the right amount of detail would make those area better-looking: they are a good start point, a nice basic layout, but they lack something... actually, more than something! :P I think that walls, stairs and flats are too bare... try to make them more varied, by adding cracks or missing steps in the staircase, by adding decorations on walls (use marble, metal or wood textures together with stone textures, for instance), blood pits, light sources and ligh effects. This is my suggestion to you. :)

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KennyJC said:

My general opinion from what I've seen though is that they go OTT with details and gimmicks which detract from levels. As you can tell I like vintage, and less can be more :D


12th Annual Cacoawards (Scuba Steve's 2005 favorites)

Tried to think of a good recent example, Jägermörder 02 was stuck in my head but the text file says zdoom. Probably one of the best looking levels of all time without using custom textures.

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they are a good start point, a nice basic layout, but they lack something... actually, more than something!


Well I take your comments on board, but If you don't think THIS is cool, then in that case I don't want it to be cool.

The only thing missing from that screenshot that will be added later are two windows along the top of the staircase and perhaps a couple of pillars along the path and better lighting.

Natrually it will improve as I see things and have an idea to make it look better nearer completion, but if I wanted to go beyond that, I wouldn't be making Doom levels, but Quake, Half life 2 levels and so on...

As long as I make levels for Doom, I will never want to go beyond the level of detail seen in a Romero Doom 2 map, ie. a proper Doom level. To go further, I would be wasting time that would be better spent on another game.

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If you added a couple of skylights or stalactites to that big flat expanse of stone ceiling I think it would really kick the overall feel of the room up a few notches. And I think you would be suprised at how much detail can be added to a room in seconds (using only a few sectors).

Example:



That skylight is only three sectors. The sky, the metal opening, and a light only sector to blend the brighter skylight with the darker room.

Here is a picture of the simple detail from Doombuilder:

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Damn, you can do lighting better than I can.

Anyway, despite what some people think good detail isn't some 50 sector computer console. Its just using sectors to add interest to an area.

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The only reason the initial shots look "bland" is because they lack lighting or decorative sprites. The actual design looks pretty professional. That "coolness" shot definitely helps create a darker atmosphere. My only quip is on that preview1.jpg shot, the ceiling texture is really odd and out of place, and doesn't tile as nicely as the other textures. I'd suggest using a different one.

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My only quip is on that preview1.jpg shot, the ceiling texture is really odd and out of place, and doesn't tile as nicely as the other textures. I'd suggest using a different one.


You are aware that is the sky, right? ;)

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KennyJC said:

You are aware that is the sky, right? ;)


Ah, okay, I realize that now. It just looks really odd though.

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Those "cool" pictures do look really cool now! ;) You managed to add a nice touch, to make everything look better just by adding a little colour variation with those brown columns and torches above them and with some metal "strips" or colmuns. :) Moreover those shadows make the room a little more realistic. ;) I think you actually learned how simple things can really improve your map! ;) Keep working on your map...! ;)

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Looking very nice.

I really like the Doom 2 feel, regardless of what these Doom 2 bashers have to say. Keep it going.

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