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Nightmare Doom

Is the Doom Community dying?

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I heared someone here said that the Doom community is getting smaller everyday and eventually by 2012 or whatever, there could be a possiblity that the Doom community will completely flourish and Doom oneday will end up as a forgotten game......


Thoughts on this possible upcoming situation? (I'm saying that THIS COULD HAPPEN, it's a scary thought but it's becoming more of a possiblity everyday with the recent reviews and I heared that several mappers like Tormentor667 (read his commits that doesn't want to map Sappore anymore) and Daniel (In the ZDoom forums he says that his wad is not getting anough recognization and thinking about deleting Doom on his hard
drive) are leaving the Doom community if they stayed true to their word....)

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This topic comes up every six months. Two mappers do not a community make. If they cannot take criticism of their work then what the hell are they releasing it for anyway? Besides, this is like the second or third time Tormentor has threatened to "leave the community".

Oh, and flourish means the opposite of what you think it means.

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Everyone who is leaving a community thinks it is dwindling.
Everyone who joins a community thinks it is growing.
Nothing new here.

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I'm sorry but Deathz0r's review of Tormenters map was extremely harsh, and he really said nothing good about it..

Now i understand if he didn't like the map, but to say it sucks amongst the other crap released in the community is a joke. It is absolutely worth a run through. I played that map myself, and i found the gameplay quite easy, but enjoyable enough to keep me going and that was on UV.

What some people don't seem to realize is that the doom community is getting smaller by the day. Putting down mappers that put a lot of time and effort into creating something new for us is only going to shorten dooms lifespan. Does his map deserve some flak? Absolutely, the corridor copy/paste was a little too much.. Does he deserve to be flamed hard and told his map sucks in front of the entire doomworld community by doomworld staff?; the very place he expected to showcase his level. i don't think so.

Anyway, my opinion is, if you are that bias on a review, get someone else to review the map.

Good-day



This post makes was one the bases for me posting this thread.

Anyway, I do HOPE that the Doom Community will stay as long as it can but by the looks of things from harsh cricism like Fusion said, is shorting Doom's lifes span but who knows what could happen next....

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HELP HELP THE COMMUNITY IS FALLING

Sweet jesus man deal with it. This thread seems to be founded on the basis of people not being able to take a negative reaction. Said people are, as is everyone, welcome to step out the door at anytime. No great loss.

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Wow, you are getting this worked up over one person's opinion? If Tormentor can't take the heat than he should just leave. I mean, jesus, a bad newstuff review isn't the end of the damn world. I'd like one person to step up and say they didn't play Sapphire because of Deathz0r's review.

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Nightmare Doom said:
(In the ZDoom forums he says that his wad is not getting anough recognization and thinking about deleting Doom on his hard drive)

I bet he warezed it in the first place!

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Nightmare Doom said:

This post makes was one the bases for me posting this thread.

He's talking shit, the community isn't dying. It's just overexaggerated (edit: thanks Dom!) bullshit that attention-seeking idiots make to try and make themselves look like some kind of leader against the evil forces of evilness.

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myk said:

I bet he warezed it in the first place!

Probably. I recall some of the technical problems his wads had were due to him having a corrupted iwad.

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I think that nearly every map released is a work of art, and is worth a few minutes to play because it prolly took the maker a while to make.

Negativity in a review may be upsetting but it should just push you to do better the next time around, learning from your mistakes and getting praised for things you do right is what the whole idea of a review is based on. Nobody likes to submit a map and then have it crushed in a review. Just because one person with their own opinions and playing preferences says that its crap doesnt mean that EVERYBODY thinks its crap, they might even give the map the time of day.

I may be new to mapping but i know whats fun for ME in levels, the tough part is figuring out what is fun for EVERYBODY you can make it fun for, if one person doesnt like it thats their problem its about the good of the community.

Perhaps the reviews are a little one-sided with only one person reviewing the map and not having a second opinion can be a good or bad thing depending on the review.

And calling out somebody like that grazza isnt going to help the community.

Personaly i feel that the doom community is strong and will remain strong for some time to come. The loss of a few excellent mappers is tragic yes, but there are always upstarts looking to prove themselves, like me even, I try to make my maps fun for everybody but really they are for me, if people like them then great! But if the map gets a cold shoulder i make it better and try again, when i correct my mistakes it makes me a better mapper, and i feel it is the same way for everybody. If the mapper knew his map was good for him he should really care less what a review says about it.

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I have a feeling that the Doom Community will last longer than the Halo Community (well, it better).
I also agree with everything Th0r said in the above post. =D

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Th0r said:
Perhaps the reviews are a little one-sided with only one person reviewing the map and not having a second opinion can be a good or bad thing depending on the review.

It's not like the comments thread is locked. And they also have the database comments to add input. As well as other places in the Internet "community". A review shouldn't be a concensus; it's a reviewer's comment and critique, not the statistical conclusion and mishmash of various opinions.

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Doom Community's just fine, we're still growing a bit.

It's people like you who make these threads and then silly discussion follows.

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myk said:

It's not like the comments thread is locked. And they also have the database comments to add input. As well as other places in the Internet "community". A review shouldn't be a concensus; it's a reviewer's comment and critique, not the statistical conclusion and mishmash of various opinions.


True, but a casual surfer who is looking to get some good wads wont be reading all of those comments really. they will be going off of what the main review says. Nobody wants to spend hours to find a wad.

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Technician said:

We need less doom fans. Then we can be considered a cult following :D


Actually we need less Doom fans, ritual sacrifices, and group suicides. THEN we'll be a cult.

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Who cares? There aren't droves of people leaving over this, the vast majority of 'leavers' simply migrate to zdoom forums where they won't get their egos hurt.

That's like saying people are 'leaving' the internet by switching to AOL. They're retards, but they're not gone.

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Th0r said:
True, but a casual surfer who is looking to get some good wads wont be reading all of those comments really.

If anyone just follows what the review says blindly, it's their problem. Presumably they'll know better eventually. Even if the reviewers were "very considerate" it doesn't mean their opinions on wads would be useful. Often on the contrary; a more sincere reviewer will be clearer, and not one who is concerned about what the readers may think about what he writes. I can disagree with a reviewer 100%, even not like the way he expresses himself, and hate something he loves or vise versa, but as long as he gives me an idea of what sort of wad it is, it'll serve its purpose of hinting whether I would like it, if that matters in regard to the particular wad.

Reviewing can help the downloading process to a degree, but by no means is it the only way to determine what to download from the /newstuff directory, nor is it subservient to the whims of some kid looking for something quick to kill boredom with. The reviews are independent commentaries of the wads, and the reviewer earns the place to write them through his effort and association with Doomworld.

Much less does the reviewer need to be acquiescent to the authors or their support (testers, etc.) He's not getting paid by the authors or anyone to promote wads, and instead giving his unique perspective and critique of the wads, sincerely giving his own commentary so people can make up their own minds about them.

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What do you mean, i never disagreed with any of this, i just stated that its your free will, and that not everyone likes going through spam when they are getting other peoples opinions. i never said anything about "the whims of some kid looking for something quick to kill boredom with" or "the reviewer need to be acquiescent to the authors or their support (testers, etc.) He's not getting paid by the authors or anyone to promote wads, and instead giving his unique perspective and critique of the wads, sincerely giving his own commentary so people can make up their own minds about them."

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I have a feeling Doom will stay around for quite awhile. It has simple gameplay, but endless replay possibilites. There are alot of good wads to play and with source ports they can look at good as newer games.

Doom also has the ability to be somewhat easily modded. With XWE, Decorate and Doombuilder, amoung alot of others people can fairly easily make a whole new game, with the same gameplay.

I will soon be taking programming classes and for a project I will make a utility that can add new textures as easily as dropping a .bmp on the wad, much like playing a demo. Even an MP3 would be dropped on a wad, with message asking for what map to replace, then asking if you want to replace old music file with option to listen to a clip first.

I let it make new sprites just as easy, as well as monster actions. A simple pulldown selection menu on how powerful thier weapons are, how fast monsters move, what thier attack looks like.

With a program this easy to use there should be an almost endless flow of "new" games that play like Doom.

You just cant open XWE and start working on it. There is a learning curve. I want my program to be stupidly easy to use, so basically anyone can open it for the first time, switch some things around and play thier new custom wad without error messages.

I know a bit about programming now and all of this sounds possible. Someone made a wad that shoots guns like 30 times faster. I could make an option for the program not even to create the wad but to be used as a launcher for ports to use insanely fast guns.

It could be play tested and have options changed very quickly, so when you have a good congiuration you could save it as a .wad to send to people or upload.

I also thank all these source ports and editing utilities for keeping Doom alive.

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myk said:

I bet he warezed it in the first place!

Heh, my first copy of Doom was a pirated pirated set of Doom 2 1.666 floppies my step-dad had.

I don't think the Doom community is dying, though. Look at all the work still being put into source ports (Chocolate Doom <3). Even if the community does die, though, who gives a shit? I'll still be able to play. Considering all the odd devices people port Doom to, it will probably run on my refrigerator in a few years.

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I just want to make a side note: Tormentor for some reason, through all the flame, still said "Thank you for your comments". He can handle the BS tossed at him just fine... It's the people like me (respecting good mappers and trying to give constructive crits.) and the arrogant people that want to cause a stir by laying pipe on people's projects that make all this Bull contraversy.

Can't we all just get along?

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Th0r said:
What do you mean,

I'm working from what you said; I'm not necessarily saying "no" to what you said, though I'm dismissing the importance of a lack of plurality (more than one opinion) in the reviews proper.

Specifically, I'm referring to seeing reviews merely as or mostly as guidlines for what to download, and how that would debilitate the reviews, and why autonomous and straightforward reviews by the guy in turn are more to the point. The kid's whim thing refers directly to the reviews as "download guidelines" and the other (not being acquiescent stuff) to a reviewer overly concerned in promoting wads. On one hand a reviewer dependent on what downloaders need, on the other what wad makers need, instead of following an independent critical criterium of his own.

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Dear Nightmare Doom, you are forgeting that it isn't only "Doom" what we are talking about, it's DOOM, with a cult that follow it, enjoy, but don't care much about newer videogames. Many have started the transmision to the next generations. And don't forget that even if some day the production of wads is stoped, we yet have a lot of wads to play, and many things to talk about (look at the number of threads and posts in the "General" section and compare it with "Wads and Mods", talking about pure DOOM seems more frecuent than about wads).

Probably some day it will perish as everything, but not because of these actual insidents. And remember Doom is DOOM, it escapes the laws of linguistics and market.

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myk said:

...sincerely giving his own commentary so people can make up their own minds about them.

deathz0r said:

Or to translate it into plain english which more people will understand, this map sucks and only serves as an "hey look at me, I can make pretty things!" entity.


Okay, that is ass like of me, but copy and pasting is just too damn funny to pass up :)

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Im leaving and never come back ;)

Community or no community im still going to make maps for doom, cause I don't really like the newer fps to me there all doom ripoffs.

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