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Higher Game

BFG makes no sense

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On map 1, I did this trick a friend showed me. I fired the BFG at a wall, but before the green ball finished exploding, I strafed right and faced the 2 soldiers. They died, even though the ball exploded where it couldn't have hurt them!

Then, there's another weird thing. I fired at a wall, like they do in multiplayer, and an imp right behind me maybe just 5 feet away from the blast wasn't harmed at all. It makes no sense! Why does wall firing work in multiplayer but not in single?

Can anyone make Zdaemon fix the BFG? It doesn't work the way it logically should. The green ball seems to be only useful for direct damage, which is only good for hallways, and the player's direction matters more! And it needs to do damage to stuff that's behind a player if the blast hits a nearby wall. The green ball should matter and not player position or view.

It just seems to me that the BFG was made weirdly because Id didn't fully understand the engine because 3d games were new back then, and were hard to figure out. After all, they DID replace the original BFG because it was so hard to work with. The current version appears to be a quick-fix version that was never further improved upon. Maybe they would understand it if the BFG were fixed. As it is now, its behavior is simply erratic and unpredictable, unlike the other, normal weapons.

No one should have to read a 50 kb faq over a single gun. It didn't even help me.

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Oh and I'm putting this request here because the BFG works fine for single player against the AI, but in multiplayer it is not balanced.

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It's just so much though. It should just work logically like a rocket launcher that has really big rockets that can't hurt the guy firing it. Even if I did understand fully the current BFG, it still needs to be fixed. Notice that Id even fixed it in their later games when they had more experience.

No one had a problem with adding jumping and free aim to Zdaemon. Why is the BFG such a sacred cow?

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Why "should work"? That's just your opinion.

You say it needs to be fixed. Most people would say it isn't broken. Sure, it's unusual, quirky and unique but it works in a predictable and, as far as I know, intended way. To paraphrase a common saying, If it ain't broke, there is nothing to fix. If you don't like the BFG, make your own one with DECORATE or something.

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Higher Game said:

On map 1, I did this trick a friend showed me. I fired the BFG at a wall, but before the green ball finished exploding, I strafed right and faced the 2 soldiers. They died, even though the ball exploded where it couldn't have hurt them!

This is exactly how it's supposed to work. Read the BFG FAQ.

Then, there's another weird thing. I fired at a wall, like they do in multiplayer, and an imp right behind me maybe just 5 feet away from the blast wasn't harmed at all. It makes no sense! Why does wall firing work in multiplayer but not in single?

It works the same in both multi and single player. Read the BFG FAQ.

Can anyone make Zdaemon fix the BFG? It doesn't work the way it logically should.

Logically it should work the same way it has for the past 12 years. Read the BFG FAQ.

The green ball seems to be only useful for direct damage, which is only good for hallways, and the player's direction matters more!

No it doesn't. Read the BFG FAQ.

And it needs to do damage to stuff that's behind a player if the blast hits a nearby wall.

If it needs to, maybe you should play something like Quake 2 or 3 where it actually does splash damage. Read the BFG FAQ.

The green ball should matter and not player position or view.

Player position matters. View doesn't. Read the BFG FAQ.

It just seems to me that the BFG was made weirdly because Id didn't fully understand the engine because 3d games were new back then, and were hard to figure out. After all, they DID replace the original BFG because it was so hard to work with.

They replaced the original because:

John Romero once said:

8,000,000,000 fireballs (1) looked like Christmas and (2) slowed the engine down on a 386/33 because there were too many sprites on the screen. Additionally, it was cooler the way it turned out because it didn't look like we just modified the Plasma gun to make a more powerful weapon.


The current version appears to be a quick-fix version that was never further improved upon. Maybe they would understand it if the BFG were fixed.

I'm pretty sure id understood what they were doing at the time. Maybe you should read the BFG FAQ.

As it is now, its behavior is simply erratic and unpredictable, unlike the other, normal weapons.

It's behavior works exactly as explained in the BFG FAQ. You should read it.

No one should have to read a 50 kb faq over a single gun. It didn't even help me.

I'm pretty sure everyone here has read it. In fact, I just reread it to refresh my memory. You should read it again.

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CODOR said:

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Maybe you should read the BFG FAQ.

You should read it.

You should read it again.


I'm confused. What are you trying to say. ;)

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If reading the BFG FAQ is so daunting, then the very brief summary at the Doom2.net page that Mordeth linked to is adequate for a working understanding of its basic operation.

Sure, it's an odd way for a gun to work, and perhaps not the way you might design it from scratch, but it is an established part of the game, and its use a signifcant element of a Doomer's skill. Moreover, the game's top weapon being one that requires skill and knowledge to use effectively (rather than just a fire-and-forget weapon that marmelizes everything within 100 yards) is a plus for the game, not a minus.

BTW, one thing you'll notice when you watch experts playing is that they will quite often "waste" the fireball completely in order to make better use of the traces.

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Grazza said:

BTW, one thing you'll notice when you watch experts playing is that they will quite often "waste" the fireball completely in order to make better use of the traces.


True. In fact, in my experience, the getting hit by a fireball is more of a 'lucky shot' than anything else. I use the tracers as my main 'weapon' when I use the BFG. And a great way to get almost instant results is to fire it at a wall then look down a hallway. Bam, everything in it is incinerated or gone two seconds ago because they heard the BFG ball explode.

This weapon is not, of course, balanced in big FFA's because with so much stuff going on, who is going to hear a BFG go off? However, in small FFA's and especially in CTF, it works great.

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BLASPHEMY! WORSHIP THE BFG!

Seriously, the BFG is the way it is due to the different phases the code went through regarding it. Even now it's one of the most powerful weapons in any game to date.

the BFG is so powerful, most camp at the bfg areas in deathmatch maps to avoid anyone using it. a bfg in a veteran's hands is scary, very, VERY scary.

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BFG balances Multiplayer, it doesn't UNbalance it, without the BFG working the way it does, DM would actually be horribly unbalanced.

Now, let's speak logically.

Running at a 45 degree angle does NOT give extra speed in real life, let's logically make it work.

A person can't really run THAT fast for that long, it's not logical, ZDaemon should fix this.

Surviving a shotgun blast without falling down and running away? Not logical, should make all guns one shot kill.

Picking up stuff with your feet by running over them? sure, that's logical.

Oh ya, if you don't like how DooM isn't "logical" WHY ARE YOU PLAYING DOOM? DooM *SUCKS*, it is a horrible logical game, go play counter strike.

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Actualy it's very easy to modify the BFG behavior, replace the BFG exploding codepointer with the missile codepointer. Some coop Skulltag servers have a BFG that works like that, but believe me, it's a very boring weapon. The BFG is perfect as it is. The BFG ball that emit lasers to the nearby target (Quake 2, DOOM 3 BFG) isn't bad, but nowhere near as fun as the BFG in DOOM. If you understand the behavior (hint: read the FAQ) you'll enjoy the BFG too.

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If the BFG were just a superpowered rocket launcher (a la Quake 3) it would be terribly boring. I think it's current functionality is far more interesting and requires a tad more skill, especially in 1-on-1.

It just seems to me that the BFG was made weirdly because Id didn't fully understand the engine because 3d games were new back then, and were hard to figure out.

Im no programmer but I get the feeling that the BFG's current implementation took more work than just a normal projectile. I'd say that makes it intentional. There're rockets in the game already so obviously they knew how to make explosive weapons.

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The BFG was coded the way it was because a) it was coded for single-player and b) use of the BFG in single-player usually involves facing a horde of monsters and pulling the trigger. Assuming that the player isn't going to move much between firing and the ball exploding, ensuring that everything in the player's sight cone (I KNOW THIS ISNT HOW THE BFG WORKS AND IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE ANGLE YOU FIRE IT OK) dies a green plasma-ey death is a pretty straightforward solution. Of course in multiplayer when you're spinning around and straferunning constantly you can exploit the behavior so the BFG works in a really weird way, but that's all part of the fun.

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Vegeta said:

Some coop Skulltag servers have a BFG that works like that, but believe me, it's a very boring weapon.

The BFG10K is actually going to be improved quite a bit in the next version of Skulltag (97b). But I'm sure you and the rest of the world will still hate it and curse its existance before going to bed every night.

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Well the bfg charges and is far more deadly in most situations, so that pretty much makes the 10k obsolete unless other changes are made.

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Carnevil said:

The BFG10K is actually going to be improved quite a bit in the next version of Skulltag (97b). But I'm sure you and the rest of the world will still hate it and curse its existance before going to bed every night.


I DIDN'T SAY THAT! I were refering to these co-op servers that play dib20b.wad (I thik that's the wad), and some not very elaborated powered up weapons (all faster, and stronger). The BFG I were talking about replace the BFG-9000 behavior, it shoots red coloured BFG balls (edited with Dehacked), with a higher rate of fire, I think stronger misile damage, and instead the trace codepointer it has an explosion with a higher radious than the normal rocket.

I like a lot the BFG10k, I find it very useful, and help me a lot when I'm facing players more skilled than me (practicaly all the time). Please if you want to modify it be careful.

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Ah, my bad man. I thought you were talking about the 10K.

And yeah, I'm being careful :) It's not TOO different, and I think people will like it more.

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Does it charge before or after?

Because I know that people with good aim and reflexes only need one shot with the BFG10k to aquire their kill (making them preserve the ammo, aswell as mking them one bad muther with the BFG10k).
But the spamming is of course a problem in bigger matches where you just need to flail it around a bit to hit 3 people. :p

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CODOR said:

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Read the BFG FAQ.

Maybe you should read the BFG FAQ.

You should read it.

You should read it again.


With subliminals like that, you should work in advertising :) The only thing better than a post that makes you chuckle, is by far the replies that make you laugh.

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Darkfyre said:

With subliminals like that, you should work in advertising :)

Did I repeat it that many times? I must have been typing it subconsciously. Read the BFG FAQ.

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lets see. From what I can tell you, the bfg is a "See what you kill" Weapon. Meaning, when you fire the charge at a wall, while turning, facing a hoarde of enemies, the damage will be dealt in that direction, leaving any enemy behind you or out of your sight range un-affected. One of the reasons why its so effective when you're in a corner.

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DevastatioN said:

BFG balances Multiplayer, it doesn't UNbalance it, without the BFG working the way it does, DM would actually be horribly unbalanced.

Now, let's speak logically.

Running at a 45 degree angle does NOT give extra speed in real life, let's logically make it work.

A person can't really run THAT fast for that long, it's not logical, ZDaemon should fix this.

Surviving a shotgun blast without falling down and running away? Not logical, should make all guns one shot kill.

Picking up stuff with your feet by running over them? sure, that's logical.

Oh ya, if you don't like how DooM isn't "logical" WHY ARE YOU PLAYING DOOM? DooM *SUCKS*, it is a horrible logical game, go play counter strike.

Even thats horrible....Eww...laggy servers...

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