Court rules no whistle-blower free-speech right

[DOOMENSTEIN]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060530/ts_nm/court_whistleblowers_dc

[Quasar]

Pretty soon we'll all have no free speech rights, thanks to the corrupted Supreme Court and the Brave New World it wants to guide us into.

[Scuba Steve]

Expose super secret underground organization for trafficking underage boys to members of congress and the white house and go directly to jail, do not pass go.

[Udderdude]

lol, americans.

[Bank]

Free speech is good, but exposing classified information is not. There should be restrictions, but not this one sided shit.

[dmdr]

It's impossible to have restrictions on free speech. By, y'know, definition.

This ruling is a joke. Satan, how the hell is corruption going to be exposed if no-one's allowed to expose it without losing their job?

[Bank]

Free speech doesnt cover everything. Because nothing is ACTUALLY free. Once you join these organizations, you give that right away. But for all intensive purposes, speech is as free as it's gonna get.

[Dr. Zin]

Bank said:

intensive purposes

Sweet mother of god. Intents and Purposes.

[BlitZ]

Bullshit. Our fore-fathers told us to protect our country and what it stood for at all costs....I dont see that happening anywhere. -_-

[Bucket]

Hey! If you're going to make comments like that, step into your Free Speech Zone and stay there.

[Bank]

You can talk all you want, but the point is that no matter how much people bitch, classified information should and will stay classified. We dont keep secrets for kicks, and while some are only internal and harmless, others could jeopardize our standing in politics, which is at an all-time low at this moment.

[dmdr]

Bank said:

Because nothing is ACTUALLY free. Once you join these organizations, you give that right away.

You're thinking of 'there's no such thing as a free lunch' which is related to money and is therefore inappropriate.
This is an entirely different definition of 'free', one which is attainable.

Secondly, balls. It's your duty to report corruption in any organisation. This ISN'T CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. It's CORRUPTION.
If you want the people who are supposed to be protecting you to be able to run around and subvert due process with impunity, because no-one's allowed to say anything about it, then I suggest you move to a country with an authoritarian regime.

Besides, if you don't want your country's political standing to slip any further, might I suggest you do something about half-witted judgements like this? Almost any other nation would be embarassed to claim to support free speech, liberty, et cetera, overseas while they penalise people who are trying to root out the bad seeds at home.

[Bank]

Lance MDR Rocket said:

You're thinking of 'there's no such thing as a free lunch' which is related to money and is therefore inappropriate.
This is an entirely different definition of 'free', one which is attainable.

Secondly, balls. It's your duty to report corruption in any organisation. This ISN'T CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. It's CORRUPTION.
If you want the people who are supposed to be protecting you to be able to run around and subvert due process with impunity, because no-one's allowed to say anything about it, then I suggest you move to a country with an authoritarian regime.

Besides, if you don't want your country's political standing to slip any further, might I suggest you do something about half-witted judgements like this? Almost any other nation would be embarassed to claim to support free speech, liberty, et cetera, overseas while they penalise people who are trying to root out the bad seeds at home.

No, I'm talking about free as in Open Source free. The constitution says you're allowed to practice your religious beliefs freely, but if your religion calls for killing babies and making a spicy "Meataball", then you're gonna get arrested.

In your pretty little world, every problem can be fixed with letters and words. Wrong. This is the real world pal, one person, or even a group of people, cant change a corrupt government. Look at Mexico.

America is as free as it's gonna get; so sadly, people need to put up with it.

[Bucket]

Whenever I hear someone say that things "are the way they are", I have to make the case for cynics. Cynics are a prime example of effecting "change" through people banding together and championing an idea. Granted, cynics have an easier time gathering recruits-- and why wouldn't they? It's too hard, so don't do it. It's too complicated, so don't think about it. It's out of your hands, so don't take responsibility.

It's the best you can hope for if you want life to be easy without working for it first. God, what a cushy life that must be.

[dmdr]

Bank:

Consider yourself showered with laugh spittle, pal. How the hell do you think Mexico got so corrupt in the first place? Because taking siestas and wearing those floppy hats gives you the corruption virus? Bullshit. Because people were too afraid to stand up for what was right.
What smashed the Iron Curtain? Clue: not the threat of nuclear war.

And whay the hell is America 'as free as it's gonna get'? It hasn't hit some pinnacle of freedom. Proper action CAN change things, it just takes balls and some proper support.
Look at the parallel between France and Australia. Both have recently had sweeping industrial relations changes made (for the shitter), except France's laws have been rescinded because people wouldn't let it happen.*

Finally, hopelessly irrelevant example. Ritual slaughter and free speech are hardly the same thing.

* Admittedly, by rioting, but it does show that mass movements can and do change things.

[Nightmare Doom]

Lance MDR Rocket said:

Bank:

Consider yourself showered with laugh spittle, pal. How the hell do you think Mexico got so corrupt in the first place? Because taking siestas and wearing those floppy hats gives you the corruption virus? Bullshit. Because people were too afraid to stand up for what was right.

Unfortunately, Fear is a tool that the U.S. Government is using to keep people under control....The Government organized 9/11 anyway in order to seduct the Americans into submission which is a prime example....

[Janderson]

Speech should either be 100% free or completely controlled. Claiming free speech with any restrictions, taboo or classified, is a stupid concept for stupid people.

Besides speech has always been free, whats the worst they can do to you if they don't like the words? Fire you? Kill you? If you love free speech so much, neither should be too big a sacrifice.

[myk]

Bank said:
You can talk all you want, but the point is that no matter how much people bitch, classified information should and will stay classified.

Yes, of course, Mr. Vice President, and it's an honor to have you here at the Doomworld Forums!

The fact is that no matter how hard you try to conceal information, if you conceal great quantities and a large part of that is "questionable", no matter the effort, it will leak in one way or another, sooner or later. It's evident that the government is struggling viciously with this issue, because it's immersed itself in a crisis due to its basically criminal behavior.

As for Mexico, you've got to understand it has to deal with the fact that it's a Latin American country, but it's right next to the US (and thus sometimes almost an extension of it).

PS: There's a hidden pun in "vice" president; most fitting!

[DOOMENSTEIN]

Nightmare Doom said:

Unfortunately, Fear is a tool that the U.S. Government is using to keep people under control....The Government organized 9/11 anyway in order to seduct the Americans into submission which is a prime example....

I kinda agree with you there. I thought it was a bit funny that happened when Bush (and Giuliani)'s approval rating was in the toilet, and then all of a sudden this happens and they're just the bee's knees.

I certainly wouldn't put it past the government what with all the crap that's been going on. And personally, I think we can't find Osama cuz we don't want to anymore.

[Naked Snake]

Or, more likely, Osama has more options than Saddam did, dur.

No, they couldn't have faked 9/11 easily. Wanna know why? A conspiracy of that magnitude would probably take AT least 1,000 people in the know. Out of those 1,000, who's to say they won't leak something about it before it happens, whatever? It's just too hard, you've just watched way too many movies and think that a room full of men can plot against a nation.

[Mordeth]

Well, you (american) guys still voted this fascist back into office so I guess you deserve everything that comes from that.

[myk]

Naked Snake said:
It's just too hard, you've just watched way too many movies and think that a room full of men can plot against a nation.

If Americans were involved (not impossible if motives and means are considered), all they did is, as is usual in any such "conspiracy" take advantage of an existing situation. Plus it doesn't have to be something semi-official from the intelligence forces, merely resources and action (to varying degrees; from facilitating the occurence to being involved) from political and economic allies of the government, mayhap with the knowledge and approval of certain key operatives within the government.

The main problem in regard to 911 is simply that it's still a chaotic mess. And with the government (the current administration in particular) throwing false leads, being overly defensive, and effecting other nonsense (like attacking countries that were not involved), it's not wise and likely counterproductive to naively follow its view on the matter.

They key thing is, some group/s was/were pretty certain of economic/political gains from 911, and they effected it, or participated in it, and up to now it seems like there is no true interest in clarifying what happened that day, either because the different parties (mainly the US, and some Arab/Muslim factions, plus perhaps Israel) were somehow involved, or else feel that they would lose something if the "terrorist attack" were genuinely investigated.

With these events in mind (along with all the economic and political maneuvering behind them), the fact that the government eagerly wants to tell potential whistleblowers to STFU isn't surprising.

[fodders]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/240506laconference.htm

[DOOMENSTEIN]

Naked Snake said:

It's just too hard, you've just watched way too many movies and think that a room full of men can plot against a nation.

No I don't actually. And I don't really like movies..and none of which I've seen would have anything to do with this. Plus, it was just a thought...I don't particularly agree with it, I was just saying why I think it's possible. But I do agree that it was fishy that 9/11 happened at the time it did, and I do think Saddam is a deterrent from Osama. I don't actually think we're working with him, but anything's possible.

If anything, Iraq could be a distraction from the crappy job of finding him we're doing. Let's start another war so people will focus on that instead. But these are just thoughts swirling in my head as I'm typing, no matter how moronic or speculative. At least I'm trying to form a complete thought...I didn't come in here saying "ZOMFG! OSAMA IS TEH ON OURSIDE AMER1Ka is Teh DOOM3D!!!11"

And I didn't vote for Bush...the 2000 election was proof positive that our votes don't count. Well, everyone voted for Gore...but these guys (electoral college) chose Bush, so...uh...he wins. Gay. I don't think I should suffer because the majority of voting Americans just want to get home in time to watch American Idol so they vote Bush to save time.

But what can I say...America seems to be the rebellious teenager of all nations. England didn't understand it, so it cut itself and formed it's own nation where it can listen to Linkin Park freely.

[sargebaldy]

Mordeth said:

Well, you (american) guys still voted this fascist back into office so I guess you deserve everything that comes from that.

Not exactly, the voting machines had a pretty obvious hand in that. Anyway, in a tyranny of the majority it's not quite fair to blame the minority. Democratic countries are a myth. It's like choosing between dish detergents. You might like the label on one better than the other, but in the end it makes no difference. Sure, you get to pick which one you like, but when the question is framed for you, does it really matter how you answer?

[myk]

Hmm, this may sound odd at first, but I just watched Woody Allen's Match Point the other night and it just stuck me that the movie plays with what happened to the US in the past few years in a very subtle but keen way. Even though the movie has nothing to do with 911 and all that in any direct mimetic way.

It doesn't even have to have been Woody Allen's intention, but it plays with the recent character of America nonetheless.

[DOOMENSTEIN]

myk said:

Hmm, this may sound odd at first, but I just watched Woody Allen's Match Point the other night and it just stuck me that the movie plays with what happened to the US in the past few years in a very subtle but keen way. Even though the movie has nothing to do with 911 and all that in any direct mimetic way.

It doesn't even have to have been Woody Allen's intention, but it plays with the recent character of America nonetheless.

Care to provide a few examples?

[myk]

DOOMENSTEIN said:
Care to provide a few examples?

How? I said there's no direct connection. Nor would I reduce the recent socio-political events in a movie nor a movie to any facts. That said, and not taking it any further:

• Becoming heavily dependent on (embroiled in) powerful economic interests out or self-interest
  
• Developing alienation (becoming cold and distant) and falsification (dishonesty)
  
• The death of innocents and getting away with it even when the evidence is found by skeptical parties
  

I was just saying why I think it's possible. But I do agree that it was fishy that 9/11 happened at the time it did

Is that all? If only the context, and thus the motives of the government adminstration, where the only elements pointing toward an in-job. On the contrary, there's eividence on various levels and from various sources. The US media is already loosening itself. Give it some more initiative and the issue on "whistleblowing" should be resolved in a way that the government does not seem to want. But that's one of the last steps, once evidence becomes more solid outside the ranks of the govermment itself (intelligence services and various politicians), which are what the government can pressure most.

[Erp]

When I joined the US Army, I knowingly signed away most of my rights, and before I left the army, I was "debriefed". I was told quite clearly that there are some things that I am not supposed to talk about, EVER.
And I wasn't anyone special, just an enlisted combat medic. So I can see how people in positions of true knowledge may be looked after closely for the rest of their lives. And one other thing, something that my parents taught me, nobody likes a tattle tale, even if they are right.

[Nightmare Doom]

Erp said:

I was told quite clearly that there are some things that I am not supposed to talk about, EVER.

Whatever it is that you know that the Government told you not to talk about, It'll most likely to reveal how sick & evil the Government really is so that would make Americans or even the entire world wake up & rise in revolt and try to overthrow the Government (or mabye the Elite) once they are revealed to be TRUE ENEMY of mankind.....

By the Way, Once you join the army, your basicly nothing more than a mindless cog being used as a tool to fufill the Government/Elite's nightmarish agenda....and truth is that your already been betrayed....like the rest of us are