Gun control

[dsm]

seems to me it's getting easier to get guns in some parts of europe..... humm.... gun....control?

You can't trust anything the media tells you, that's why I'm saying that it seems like it's easier in the US and that's why I'm saying that I don't know if banning guns in the USA is a good thing.

The only thing I know for sure is that we don't have any serious trouble like school shootings in my country and guns ARE illegal here.

what did your history teacher tell you about the US? Part of the reason we started the revolution was to stop the red coats from taking our guns. Why would we then turn and take them from ourselves?

My history teacher told me that you were dissatisfied
with the taxes, not a word about the red coats wanting to take your guns away from you. Seems that they wanted to take them away from you, so that you couldn't rebel against them.

Anyway, could you please tell me excatly why civies needed guns? Defence against wild animals? Indians perchance? (My knowledge on this is a bit limited)

dsm --- thank you.
You are one of the few people on this board that has disagreed with me without stooping to a 3rd grade insult level. I almost can't belive the board admins allow some of the posts in this thread.... but then it occurs to me where i am. I am on doom world arguing (mostly) with a bunch of 8th graders.

Insulting people, no matter if it's in real life or adressed at avatars with nicknames, is simply against my principles.

I don't think it'll make you anymore popular if you insult the people insulting you. So far I've learnt that being insulted on an online forum should not be taken serious, because it is not MEANT to be taken seriously.
I suggest that you calm down and ignore the insults that people throw at you. Replying to insults with more insults, will only cause a steady flow of insults - a vicious circle.

[Phoenix]

Anyway, could you please tell me excatly why civies needed guns?

Most likely it's written in this thread somewhere, but I am to lacy to look through 7 pages. The reason to own guns is simply to maintain the status quo.
Europe after all the shit they went to, still believe the government will never again
abuse their military/police powers against the will of the majority population.
Americans are not that naive. Unless you use mass destructive weapons, the government here (USA) would have a hard time to "oppress" their own people like any Euro government could do right now.

Most people believe this statement to be old and obsolete; well they overlook what history has taught us for thousand of years that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Look at Afghanistan, Iraq, Chile etc. - Democracy lasted in Greece for very view Years, and that only for the upper crust of people, they still got them slaves in them days. Our western democracies are at best maybe hundred years old.

Bottom line if you really believe in the goodness of your governments, then go ahead, turn your weapons in. (Don¡¯t forget your knifes) I personally do not and will keep mine, in fact I will shoot however forces me to turn them in. And for those who use isolated incidences like school shootings to alter basic freedoms, all I can say, if you can¡¯t control your kids, we need more weapons to eliminate those who shoot and kill just for fun.

[slo5oh]

My history teacher told me that you were dissatisfied
with the taxes, not a word about the red coats wanting to take your guns away from you. Seems that they wanted to take them away from you, so that you couldn't rebel against them.

Anyway, could you please tell me excatly why civies needed guns? Defence against wild animals? Indians perchance? (My knowledge on this is a bit limited)

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (Julian P. Boyd, Ed., 1950). See more discussion on this quote HERE.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms;…" Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (February 6, 1788).

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).

you can read more at www.saf.org

here is "Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of taking up Arms,
July 6,1775"
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/D/1751-1775/war/causes.htm

[pritch]

pritch insulting me

hypocrite

Ouch :) That's showed me! I'll never insult Slo5oh again!

whatever happened to...

Slo5oh happened. I actually like or don't mind everyone on the forums 'cept him. But this forum doesn't really count 'cos it's the bullshit forum.

dan, save the group hug for general forum.

[danarchist]

slo5oh: That's ony one of many, many reasons that the Americans rebelled. The Brittish government was exploiting us so they could live in luxury and sit on their fat royal arses. We were being taxed to death...the Barons and Governors were the the few wealthy people in the Colonies. Most everyone else was living in poverty.

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion." Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).

I agree...we are a bit overdue for this. Let's begin a revolution and start a new governemnt...a better one this time! Who's with me?

[læmænt]

The Brittish government was exploiting us so they could live in luxury and sit on their fat royal arses. We were being taxed to death...the Barons and Governors were the the few wealthy people in the Colonies. Most everyone else was living in poverty.

Except that taxes in Britain were a lot higher...

[danarchist]

The Brittish government was exploiting us so they could live in luxury and sit on their fat royal arses. We were being taxed to death...the Barons and Governors were the the few wealthy people in the Colonies. Most everyone else was living in poverty.

Except that taxes in Britain were a lot higher...

Well, the British should have revolted too, but they didn't. Oh well...

[Castlevania]

give me freedom or give me death, motherfucker
anyone that chooses safety over freedom deserves neither, idiot
what the fuck happened to traumatize you about guns?
guns can save your ass. it isn't my fault people get killed cuz they dont buy a gun for themself and couldnt protect themself from a criminal. nuclear weapon bans i understand, but not gun bans.
now go play doom.

[Castlevania]

In the USA, the amount of murders commited per capita is WAY higher than in any country of the world where you're not allowed to have a gun. Face that one. Maybe you're the next person to get shot. - Fredrik

well fredrik, that could possibly be a DAMN GOOD THING.
most of these people that die in america could be criminals. gangs killing other gangs, good people killing their fellow man that is a danger to people.

[dr_st]

anyone that chooses safety over freedom deserves neither, idiot

And anyone that chooses freedom over safety deserves neither as well, you asshole.

[Fredrik]

well fredrik, that could possibly be a DAMN GOOD THING. most of these people that die in america could be criminals. gangs killing other gangs, good people killing their fellow man that is a danger to people.

Yeah GREAT! Let's have all bad people die! Long live society and empathy!

[pritch]

The Brittish government was exploiting us so they could live in luxury and sit on their fat royal arses. We were being taxed to death...the Barons and Governors were the the few wealthy people in the Colonies. Most everyone else was living in poverty.

Except that taxes in Britain were a lot higher...

Well, the British should have revolted too, but they didn't. Oh well...

You just don't get us, do you. Back in those days, even now, we were like one big family. It wasn't great, but it worked, and people were proud to be British and of the Royal family. Even now both these things are still very common.

I don't expect anyone who's been brought up in a republic to understand, you just couldn't. I'm sure if I had been brought up in a America I'd be very pro-republican.

[slo5oh]

slo5oh: That's ony one of many, many reasons that the Americans rebelled. The Brittish government was exploiting us so they could live in luxury and sit on their fat royal arses. We were being taxed to death...the Barons and Governors were the the few wealthy people in the Colonies. Most everyone else was living in poverty.

agreed. One of the few things i remember from 8th grade history class was the Boston Tea Party. My comment above was not ment to say that disarming them the only reason, or even the major reason, but it was one of the reasons... and one of the final straws.

Just like the t-shit says "when they come to take your guns be sure to give them the ammo first"

[pilottobombadier]

Proper gun control: Safety and fire selector, it's all you need.

[Castlevania]

we should just divide america into two sections
gun control wouldnt work in America, we aren't Japan.
whats wrong with killing bad people? death is a way of life.
my apologies to whoever i insulted, i think i took "Flame on!" to heart too much. :)
and i don't want cops to have guns but civilians not. cops aren't always crooked. bad people are drawn to cophood because of the power it gives.

[danarchist]

You just don't get us, do you. Back in those days, even now, we were like one big family. It wasn't great, but it worked, and people were proud to be British and of the Royal family. Even now both these things are still very common.

I don't expect anyone who's been brought up in a republic to understand, you just couldn't. I'm sure if I had been brought up in a America I'd be very pro-republican.

You do realize, of course that the royal family are just a bunch of figureheads that tax you to death. Damn, they give you guys taxes for everything...even an artist tax. What the Hell...you get taxed for being creative. Just because the royal family have ancestors that ruled the country doesn't mean you should worship them. Its a dumb reason anyways.

Yeah GREAT! Let's have all bad people die! Long live society and empathy!

You mean entrophy? There was more entrophy in his post than empathy.

whats wrong with killing bad people? death is a way of life.

You do realize that there wouldn't be gangs killing each other if the government wasn't as bad as it is.

[pritch]

Less than 1% of the UK tax burden is now down to the royal family. As ambassadors, they're good value for money.

It'll be even less once the civil list is chopped down to size, which is looking like being very soon.

[dsm]

Take into consideration that these taxes are used to improve society in a great many ways. Taxes are used for better health care, old age pension, money for the homeless, good education etc.
Now I get the impression (but it's nothing I know too much about so please bear over with me) that the US has major flaws in it's society. I once read that deadnail admitted that the American school system sucks and I've read that there is a problem with homeless people too (I've read about other problems too, but I can't remember 'em).
Now, if Americans paid more taxes, it'll likely improve at least their educational system.

And no, the Brits aren't "taxed to death", which I know, because part of my family are Brits (so I know a wee bit about their taxation compared to the taxation in my country) and because we get even higher taxes in my country, without having too much trouble paying our bills.

Also, I get the impression (but that's likely plain rumors) that Americans have a nasty habit of spending fortunes. People tell me that the average American takes the car, when he/she only needs to go 300 meters! If that's true, then I'll say that you're wasting too much precious oil.

[danarchist]

Also, I get the impression (but that's likely plain rumors) that Americans have a nasty habit of spending fortunes. People tell me that the average American takes the car, when he/she only needs to go 300 meters! If that's true, then I'll say that you're wasting too much precious oil.

Yeah, thats why I officialy renounced the American way of life years ago.

[ShadyXMR]

This is one of the few moments that I have ever seen left-wingers denounce taxes.

[pritch]

heh, dsm rulez.

[Castlevania]

americans may be wasting oil when they take the car for short walks, but if they don't, then they are just wasting precious food. because food gives us energy, and though it may be more prevalent than oil, it is...whoa, everything im saying right now is Über-pointless. =)

[dsm]

heh, dsm rulez.

Why thank you Pritch. Why do I rule?

americans may be wasting oil when they take the car for short walks, but if they don't, then they are just wasting precious food. because food gives us energy, and though it may be more prevalent than oil, it is...whoa, everything im saying right now is Über-pointless. =)

You're right about the über-pointlessnes, but just to point out the pointlessnes of your ..ahem.. points: Oil is more expensive than food, and heaven knows that you Americans have lots of food already, so I don't see your problem, sorry.

[pritch]

because you tell it straight. And I think you stuck up for me when I was postcountskullfucked.

[Wobbo]

All of the socialists and communists hate me. Sounds about right.

no actually i agree

Anyway, preventing them? Simple, don't let your stupid teenage kids have easy access to your firearms. PARENTING. I've been around guns since I was six years old. I get pretty mad at people at school. I get picked on. Have I ever gone to school and shot those people? NO. Why? I have parents who actually give a flying fuck about me.

THANK YOU. I AGREE. acutally, though, i was directed to the guy that said "something deeper inside us causes people to kill others"

Thou shalt not kill? So would you rather die than defend yourself? Interesting. I don't take particular offense to this since I'm not a fanatical Christian.

Me neither, and in fact i think that part of the bible is WORNG in teaching that. once again, that was not only directed to you though

WOW, a socialist who reads his history book. I'm impressed.

yeah, well i wouldnt be a communist if i DIDNT study history

[Wobbo]

This is one of the few moments that I have ever seen left-wingers denounce taxes.

you need to meet some actual people that are left-wing instead of the democrat knee-jerk dumbasses you seem to know so well

a socialist would BY DEFINITION support guns.
being a communist has VERY little to do with taxes, if anything, a communist revolution in america would lead to LOWER taxes because politicians WASTE much of it on useless crap.

money towards education? most of it wasted. War on Drugs? Very little improvement

war? Communists dont support impearlist bullshit.

[ShadyXMR]

you need to meet some actual people that are left-wing instead of the democrat knee-jerk dumbasses you seem to know so well

Heh, they tell me that they ARE "actual" left-wingers. One I know is a true socialist and supports taxing the populace into submission.

being a communist has VERY little to do with taxes, if anything, a communist revolution in america would lead to LOWER taxes because politicians WASTE much of it on useless crap.

A true communist revolution would. I sincerely doubt that a true communist system is possible without some dramatic changes in human nature.

But yes, I realize that you are right. The social doctrine doesn't call for it. I just look at the best tries at communism.

[pritch]

ShadyXMR is right, communism would fail because people fail. I think I said this ages ago in deadnail's long gone thread on communism...

If people were perfect and a perfect communism by it's own definition possible, I'd be a communist.

Unfortunately it's a idealist's dream, and I'm ultimately a realist, more's the pity :(

That's why I play Doom. Sheer (beautiful) escapism.

[Fredrik]

Follow the Vrackism.

[Sharessa]

I'm a firm believer in Danarchy.