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Dutch Doomer

Betatesters needed

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Is there someone who is willing to give me feedback on this mapset ive been working on for god knows how long.
I am about to update an older version thats in the archives atm, I could use opinions about the gameplay part.
Ive been doing alot of testing myself, this mapset is for normal doom2 so use any port you like.
However it refuses to run with Risen3d and im not sure whats causing this, I was thinking it has something to do with the textures.

Some random screenies:


Old version:
http://rapidshare.de/files/25127763/Odyssey.zip.html

Updated version:
http://rapidshare.de/files/26455987/Odyssey.zip.html

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k um wow. Well heres the Hobbs review.

MAP01: Awesome. Excellent start to what could have been an excellent wad. The start might be a bit tough to a few people. And, as with all maps forward, secrets are damn difficult to find. I have no difficulty pronouncing this the best map in the wad.

MAP02: Unfinishable. Between the monsters, what with the mass hitscans and the 4 archviles, and the lack of readily available health, I died on all 5 attempts on this map. Put frankly this map needs more health out in the open.

MAP03: Um...I don't know what to say. It was crap. Suffered from horrible gameplay, crap fights, low health, and massive amounts of lol symmetry. Snore.

MAP04: I dont really have a lot to say about this map. It was dark, still pretty bad on health, and from what I played the fights were very uninspired. Seemed almost like a concept map.

MAP05: A vast improvement over the last 3 maps. The theme of running through a castle was done well, and so were the fights, up until you got the yellow key (including that fight) At that point ammo starts to drop to a not quite so fun degree. Other than that it was pretty good.

MAP06: Lolz prest teh switchz 2 complet teh levl.

MAP07: I dunno. I honestly can say I truly disliked this map. It was too mazey and the gameplay alternated between frantic fights and nothing. Though I guess it works for some folks.

MAP08: Quite a nice level, I enjoyed it thoroughly. I felt the large room near the end suffered from being empty, due to the fact if you don't activate at least 2 switches at once..erm...well it just is empty heh.

MAP09. Huge fucking map. I think I would have enjoyed this more if it was shorter. As it is the level is just long and droning, and it really should have ended earlier than it did. Possibly tight on ammo.

MAP10: Great idea, great execution, great map. I dunno if theres anything really wrong with this one, aside from me being a mong and getting a bit confused at the start.

MAP11: There were quite a few issues with this map. First theres no point in the rooms precluding the icon room (aside from the very first one where you stock up); I just ran through them. Second, and most important: the icon room is too fucking GARGANTUAN, it doesnt need to be that big, esp for what point 3 addresses. Third, the icon fight is bland. Its a very, extremely plain ride the elevator and shoot the icon fight that has almost no gameplay dynamic whatsoever.

In short, the wad has major flaws. It started out looking promising but it tanked quick. Some of the stuff in here seems very much like a concept, and its executed poorly. And finally the gameplay balance throughout most of the wad is...nonexistant.

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All maps played from a pistol start on UV.

map01:

I didn't like how the YSK pool was surrounded by impassable lines.

Both monster teleporters at the YSK could use an extra destination, the monsters come out to slow to be a threat.

Same for the RSK monster teleporter that's closest to the RSK itself.

Awesome layout btw.

map02:

It's in desperate need of health.

I give up. For me, this map is not beatable due to lack of health.

map03:

Slightly confusing and quite boring. Not a fun map to play.

The blood pit in one of the areas is inescapable AFAICT yet it does low damage. It's also quite annoying that it's inescapable :P

Ran out of ammo and health in the endgame. IMO both are way too low.

map04:

That inescapable pit at the BSK is a really bad design decision.

Some armor before the BSK fight would be nice. Also needs more ammo.

It's quite unplayable ATM.

map05:

Stuck chaingunner in a teleport.

A plasma rifle would be nice for all those cells :P

Another nice map.

map06:

Finally a good slaughter. Too bad there's not nearly enough ammo for all those barons and hks :P

map07:

The blocking lines in the windows to the YSK yard have no reason to be there.

The monster teleporters are poorly done in this map, the teleport lines are badly placed.

This one's nice as well.

map08:

A BFG would speed things up with the barons.

map09:

No RL?

Some areas seemed low on shells and health. I guess the rocket launcher would've helped.

This map would've been more entertaining if I had some knowledge of the map. The first run was slightly frustrating.

map10:

Inescapable pits with no damage with spectres that block you when you jump over them. Somewhat ridiculous.

Inescapable water pit.

Killing the arachs surrounding the main area is not possible (not enough ammo, no good weapons).

map11:

Way too large, which means a) monsters are mostly harmless b) timing the rockets is a pain.


The way things are, since you've said you've tested it extensively, I'm not sure we were playing the same wad :P The designs are awesome as usual, but the gameplay falls flat in most maps.

Edit: I find it lolworthy that shotgunmassacre used the words 'tested it' 40 minutes after his initial post while it took me 3 hours to play through the whole wad. The feedback he provided must've been awesome :P Especially since there's nothing wrong with map01's starting area, it's actually the best map in the wad ATM.

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dutch devil said:

However it refuses to run with Risen3d and im not sure whats causing this, I was thinking it has something to do with the textures.


It is caused by you having 2 PP_START Markers. The erroneous one is placed between F_END and MAP01 Markers. Just delete the 2nd PP_START and it runs in Risen3D. ;)

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Why does Risen3D even read the (P)P_START marker? No other port is doing this so it can only cause problems (as here.)

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Graf Zahl said:

Why does Risen3D even read the (P)P_START marker? No other port is doing this so it can only cause problems (as here.)


I didn't know that so I deleted all the START\END markers and R3D still ran the wad. So R3D doesn't need these markers to run wads. In any event this issue has been reported to Graham Jackson.

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Most likely it tried to read the rogue PP_START entry as a texture, which would be easy enough for him to fix.

As for the maps, I only played to map02 then gave up, I agree that map is way too hard. I'll play the rest later.

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Yikes alot of feedback at once I didn't expect this to happen :)
Thanks people I can see there is an ton of work to be done before im near to an release.
I going to remove all monsters and items and start putting them in from scratch again.
It has way too much hitscanners anyway, good thing there is an community to fall back on for feedback :)

Thanks for that hint on the PP_START markers ill fix that aswell.

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dutch devil said:

I going to remove all monsters and items and start putting them in from scratch again.


Whoa, that's a bit drastic IMO.

Only maps 02 and 03 would need such makeovers, the rest are fine, they just need slight touchups. As the lack of certain weapons suggests, they weren't tested on a per map basis, otherwise I'm sure the second half of the wad plays just fine.

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Im using your feedback as an guide and start with map01 and fix the problems.
My personal favourite maps would be map01 05 07 08 maybe ill ditch the crappy ones and only keep the fun ones ;)
Map06 is just one big switch feast but believe me its better than the original.
But thats something that needs to be looked after as well since pressing tons of switches is just getting irrtating.

Map09 is huge I know its not an map your just going to do in a few minutes but I like it.
I could make it easier to provide the players with some clues on what route they should take.
Map11 will get an makeover or ill just take it out nobdoy likes to do the same old shoot the brain stuff anymore.
Got it to run In R3D now so thats fixed im working on improving my monster teleporter rooms in map01 atm.

And some questions for the ones who read this:
-Whats your top ten of all time favourites original doom tracks (Udoom D2 TNT Plutonia)
Im going to replace the tracks with other ones and was wondering which ones you guys like the most.
-Who can help me out with an better looking titlepic, I like my picture but not the letters and maybe some borders around it.

Belial said:

map07:

The blocking lines in the windows to the YSK yard have no reason to be there.

They arent blocking the green pillar things block you :)

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Here is the ones I like though I can't say whether it will suit your map. (I haven't played them and I don't think I will)

1- E3M3
2- E1M4
3- E2M1
4- Map11
5- E1M1
6- Map11 (TNT)
7- E2M3
8- E3M8
9- E1M9
10-E1M7

I like the lively music of those maps.

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dutch devil said:

And some questions for the ones who read this:
-Whats your top ten of all time favourites original doom tracks (Udoom D2 TNT Plutonia)
Im going to replace the tracks with other ones and was wondering which ones you guys like the most.


Here are my favorite tracks;
1. E1M1
2. E1M8
3. E1M9
4. E2M1
5. E2M2
6. E2M8
7. E2M9
8. Map10
9. Map20
10. Map28

I didn't play your wad yet, but I'm going to do that right now as the screenshots look very promising!

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Thanks enjoy the maps the gameplay still needs to be improved ill probably update the link after ive done some work to my maps.
Most bugs Belial mentioned have been fixed allready, map11 is going to be smaller no more brain shooting ill think of something else.
Ive used some sounds from hexen for the lifts and it fits the theme better.The archviles on map02 along with the towers are gone now, platforms with knights came in place for it.

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Changes I have done so far.

Map01

The impassible lines at the YSK pool are gone now.

The teleporters at the YSK do have an extra destination now monsters teleport faster making it more of an threat.

The teleporters at the RSK have been changed they teleport closer to the RSK area making it more of an threat as well.

Map02

Added health and ammo.

Removed most of the chaingunners and replaced them with imps for the most part, it has alot less hitscanners.

Added some detail on areas where I thought it could use some, center part of the map has been changed.

Map03

The blood pits are escapable now and they don't harm the player anymore.

Added health and ammo.

Removed most of the chaingunners.

Map04

The blood pit at the BSK is escapable now.

Added an suit of armor just before you teleport to the BSK area, added ammo as well.

Map05

Fixed stuck chaingunner it was caused by some lines that where impassible for monsters.

Added an plasmagun to the map though its in an secret room im not sure if thats such an good idea.

Map06

Added alot of ammo and less switches to press now it still isnt quite what I want yet.

Map07

Removed the green pillars just under the windows at the start and replaced them with candles.

Fixed badly designed monster teleporters.

Added some health and ammo to area where I kept running out of it.

Map08

Added an bfg to the map.

Map09

Rocket launcher is added along with additional ammo here and there.

Map10

Inescapable pits have changed it does do you alot of damage if you fall in and the spectres are removed.

Inescapable water pits are changed to lava pits which do you maximum damage if you fall in added teleporters to get out from them.

Arachs are more easier to kill you start out with an rocket launcher.

Added ammo and health.

map11

Is under construction.

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Sounds like the changes are all for the better Dutch! Looking forward to trying the updated wad.

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Ive made some good progress with map11 today ive deleted most of the Icon of sin area.
And started building it up again from scratch, its alot smaller now and imo it looks better too.
And all the other areas where Hobbs just blazed through are still there but they are only used when playing dm.
I thought they where to good to remove so ive used them for an different purpose, the Icon of sin room is inaccesable when playing it on dm.
Some screens of map11 they are not quite done yet there still some things I would like to add.

The screen on the far right is one from map02 btw.

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I've only played the first 3 maps so far, but I liked what I've seen :)
Except of some gameplay annoyances wich Hobbs and Belial already covered up I think, the maps were really fun to play and to look at.

I gues I'll wait for the new version before I proceed though... the screenshots look nice btw!

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Very cool Dutch. Anyway that you'd be interested in letting us test out the maps that have been updated? Map06 is one I'm really wanting to check out.

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dutch devil said:

Ill update the first post sometime this week, map06 still needs to be tweaked some more.

Psst, Dutch, update said linkage found within the first post. We be ready to check out updated version.

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I gave these maps a try. Seems like the gameplay consists of an army of annoyingly-placed chaingunners combined with almost zero health.

Death by slow hitscan randomness IS NOT FUN.

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