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fodders

Holocaust deniers?

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Washington, D.C., September 29th 2006: “Some very unhappy people here but not about the mid term elections. It seems that after the Second World War, the Soviets captures all of the records of the Nazi concentration camps…from 1935 to 1945….and put them in their archives in Moscow. Because they pretty much knock a hole in the legend of six millions gassed, Jewish groups pressured Russia not to ever allow any researcher to see or copy any of these and for certain, never to release the contents of these files to anyone, ever. Russians are easy to bribe and apparently someone in the States got the whole file (on microfilm) and there is fury and panic over this. Jewish groups have asked the DoJ to declare these “improperly released” classified documents and grab them. Unfortunately, there is no legal basis for doing this. The original documents were German and the microfilms are Russian, not American. Some of these groups have built up a thriving business on the subject and anything concrete that could sink their boat is something not to put up with. This is a subject that most people don’t care about but to those who do, it is a real bell-ringer. All of this hinges on whether or not the present owner got these legally. If our people can’t prove he didn’t, it looks like fun and games in the History department!”

Then there are the records of the Red Cross which (unlike the US prison camps) were given full access to the German camps, even to the point of having observers permanently stationed at some of the camps, and while their records showed large numbers of deaths from typhoid towards the end of the war, plus executions for criminal actions, the records fail to show any indications of a large-scale organized genocide in the camps.

http://www.thelastoutpost.com/site/1148/default.aspx

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They (the deniers) are a bunch of retarded lunatics that have no life and will probably never get one. Heck, why DO they waste their time debating about an event that happened over 60 years ago while they could actually enjoy their lives.

If they want to waste their lives on such bullshit, I don't care as long as nobody else is harmed as a result.

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The scary thing is is wondering what can happen when the last first-hand experiences die off. It's something that has to be settled quickly while there is still enough concrete evidence to overwhelmingly deny these fallacies.

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Scuba Steve said:
So wait, people are still retarded enough to try and deny that the Holocaust occured?

No idea and who cares, but if that archive exists and can provide information on the historical incident, it should be unveiled for people and institutions to investigate. It is obvious the Holocaust has a grave political meaning even now, and especially lately, so it cannot be dealt with irresponsibly.

Particularly since the term "denier" is branded in a generalized manner on practically anyone critical of the popular conception of the Holocaust. There is a huge leap between denying something and reevaluating its meaning or examining the facts behind it, or examining the way it is treated in the current world scenario.

You will always have some people speaking nonsense or exaggerations when on the other hand you have a group actively enforcing a particular minset in regard to the event, but you will also have valid questions to seek an answer for unless an effort is made to clarify any bias or inconsistencies.

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When "some" people means the president of the soverign nation of Iran, then we should care. Would you prefer I used the more correct terminology, Holocaust Revisionist? Of course the documents should be released, but they won't tell us anything earth shattering we didn't already know. Occam's fucking razor here, the Holocaust is corroborated by so much evidence, only small intricacies of the events have the portential for substantial modification.

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The past can never be changed. Why try to alter history? Whatever happened is whatever happened. People should worry about the present and the future instead.

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Scuba Steve said:
When "some" people means the president of the soverign nation of Iran, then we should care.

You mean when he said western powers built a myth over the event in order to help maintain their hegemony based on their position at the end of the war and that those that deny the myth are hounded? Did the president of Iran say it did not happen, or that it was not an atrocity?

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myk said:

Did the president of Iran say it did not happen, or that it was not an atrocity?

Both, from what I understand, as the president of Iran is a known Holocaust Denier. It's not an uncommon practice for crazed zealots or leaders in the region to deny it. Could be wrong, but that's what I've heard.

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Pure Hellspawn said:

The past can never be changed. Why try to alter history? Whatever happened is whatever happened. People should worry about the present and the future instead.


The past give those in power control over the present\future. Control the past, and you control the future. Read more 1984 :)

So yes, it is a serious, albiet atrocious issue.

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Jehar said:

The past give those in power control over the present\future. Control the past, and you control the future. Read more 1984 :)

So yes, it is a serious, albiet atrocious issue.



While it is true that events in the past determine what happens in the future, I see no point in trying to prove that an event that happened 60 years ago never took place. Especially for those who were born after the end of the event.

The value of the past is to learn from your mistakes. But why would someone like David Duke (who was born after the Holocaust ended) try and change the way we tell stories of the past?

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Snarboo said:
Both, from what I understand, as the president of Iran is a known Holocaust Denier. It's not an uncommon practice for crazed zealots or leaders in the region to deny it. Could be wrong, but that's what I've heard.

It is wiser to look at his discourse directly, instead of repeating what many western media corporations have published as a commentary or interpretation of that discourse.

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Discrediting a major event such as that can give a whole range of leverage to those that want to further discredit human rights.

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What do the Jews care? It happened and quite frankly these documents can give great incite to what truly happened and what went on behind the scenes. I think this is great, and would love to see this go public.

Are they scared that hard evidence will shrink the alleged number of people killed. I'd actually love to see what medical experiments and knowledge came from all the testing.

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Technician said:

What do the Jews care? It happened and quite frankly these documents can give great incite to what truly happened and what went on behind the scenes. I think this is great, and would love to see this go public.

Are they scared that hard evidence will shrink the alleged number of people killed. I'd actually love to see what medical experiments and knowledge came from all the testing.


http://www.remember.org/educate/medexp.html

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myk said:

It is wiser to look at his discourse directly, instead of repeating what many western media corporations have published as a commentary or interpretation of that discourse.

I understand that. Truthfully, the best method would be to interview the man himself, but considering he's a politician that has an agenda and a people to please, how much of it would be truth or posturing?

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Snarboo said:
Truthfully, the best method would be to interview the man himself, but considering he's a politician that has an agenda and a people to please, how much of it would be truth or posturing?

Neither truth nor posturing, but a discourse aimed to have effects.

No interview is required to analyze what he said in that discourse mentioning the Holocaust that was commented on, last year. At most you might not know some of the actions he might be taking alongside what he's expressed, or some facts about the context, but words in action often speak a lot more than a formulated inquiry.

An interview would condition his response according to the viewpoint of the ones making the questions.

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myk said:

At most you might not know some of the actions he might be taking alongside what he's expressed, or some facts about the context, but words in action often speak a lot more than a formulated inquiry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad#Holocaust_denial_and_allegations_of_anti-Semitism

Even suggesting that we need "further scientific evidence" to prove the Holocaust, is a fucking joke. There is SO much evidence that corroborates the massacre of millions of jews, you're a damned fool for even suggesting it. It's as ludicrous as saying "evolution has no factual basis, and we require more studies to prove that species change over time."

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It was actually 6 million pirates that were killed in the holocaust, and this makes the Flying Spaghetti Monster cry.

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It was actually Gypsies, Pagans, Freemasons, Dissentients, Anarchiests, Socialists, Luddittes, etc were the six million people that were killed in the Holocaust...

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Shut up, it's pirates and you know it! If it weren't pirates then please explain to me where all the pirates of the world have gone!

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Scuba Steve said:
Even suggesting that we need "further scientific evidence" to prove the Holocaust, is a fucking joke. There is SO much evidence that corroborates the massacre of millions of jews, you're a damned fool for even suggesting it.

Arguably that was one of the most awkward or controversial statements he made about the matter, based on the dislike or rejection part of his society has of the Holocaust for certain reasons, and possibly to provoke an argument, in addition to slapping at Israel. Yet, taking all this as a long standing debate, that's not all he's said. After numerous coutries of media groups said "WTF are you talking about? We have piles of documentation and physical evidence", he did send a message that was something like "okay, so you consider it so important and are sure it happened (it was your thing, and you studied it, not us), but look here, it is now the basis for a nation that makes war in our area, with its allies, who were either involved in the matter or actually perpetrated the issue".

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You know, this is why I hate the Middle East. Swear to God, the people out there, on both sides of the various conflicts, act like children. Grow the hell up, Middle East! "Waaaaa!!! Waaaaa!!! Palestine hit me! Israel keeps touching me and he won't stop! Yeah, well he started it! Nuh uh! Yuh huh! Nuh uh! Yuh huh!" I mean, how can I respect the opinion of anyone who hails from that region of the world when all of their conflicts come out sounding like a very violent sibling brawl in the back seat of the family station wagon on the way to the Grand Canyon for the annual summer vacation?

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Nightmare Doom said:

It was actually Gypsies, Pagans, Freemasons, Dissentients, Anarchiests, Socialists, Luddittes, etc were the six million people that were killed in the Holocaust...

Actually it's more like ~6 million jews and the "etc" composed the near 11 million slaughtered. But you're point is valid that we should acknowledge that Jews were not the only group subject to the persecutions of the Nazis and the Holocaust.

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Danarchy said:

Shut up, it's pirates and you know it! If it weren't pirates then please explain to me where all the pirates of the world have gone!


Ninjas got to them first

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