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wallis

Funky berserk bug... [not a bug]

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I don't know why I'm moaning about this, it's helped me complete like 20 different levels. But has anyone noticed a bug in doom95 that when you pick up beserk that the fist gains the enhanced damage perminantly?! The affected sight goes, and I'm not sure if it drops slightly when the powerup wears off or whether it remains the same. But when I pick it up, afterwards I can still kill imps and soldiers with one hit and even gib them whereas before I couldn't. And I can take out pinkys in one or two hits wherea It used to take about half a dozen.

Does anyone know of a reason, it's quite useful I admit but I can't help but feel I'm cheating when I kill two baron of hells using fists.

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That's how the berserk works, and have always worked.

Now, why the hell are you using Doom95 anyway?

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I remember doing this in doom95 some years ago, myself. Monster punching rampages are fun. I think it'd be rather cool if it were an actual bug, for some reason.

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@wallis: the manual says "Duration: one level". It's Permanent.
@kristus: I also use Doom95 and I ain't unhappy with it. It's rather good & cool hearing the monsters low-pitched.

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sorry, I was unaware of this. I always assumed that the nature of beserk of was that of a powerup.

Who knew?....everyone but me! lol.

Edit: Yea I knew that too, it's more useful for the health than anything else.

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Berserk packs are a god-send on levels with otherwise strict health limits. I always leave them sitting til I really need them, since I don't use the fist much unless there's also an invulnerability nearby (I prefer chainsawing demons, and anything bigger than that is hard for me to punch).

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The manual which confirms that the berserk pack is permanent was written by GT interactive, if I'm not mistaken. This may mean that id software didn't intend the berserk to be permanent.
Unless of course it's confirmed by id elsewhere, this could really be an interesting 'bug'. It does seem strange that the red glow fades while the powerup stays.

On the other hand, having to complete the level with the red hue would probably get annoying. When you enter the next level, it'd look like you have a radiation suit ;P

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Considering it was left unfixed for 9 versions, I think it's safe to say it's supposed to be like that. It's not something that is easy to miss. And it's the publishers job to make the manuals for the games.

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Terra-jin said:

The manual which confirms that the berserk pack is permanent was written by GT interactive, if I'm not mistaken. This may mean that id software didn't intend the berserk to be permanent.
Unless of course it's confirmed by id elsewhere, this could really be an interesting 'bug'. It does seem strange that the red glow fades while the powerup stays.

On the other hand, having to complete the level with the red hue would probably get annoying. When you enter the next level, it'd look like you have a radiation suit ;P


The manual has nothing to do with it, John Carmack *******ely programmed it that way. It has always given you this effect and was always inteded to be used this way.

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It's just to make thing nicer, if the screen didn't change it would be quite boring, but if the screen keep red until the level ends it'd be annoying.
There's a demo in Ultimate DOOM where the player (Romero?) plays with the berserk pack and keep punching even after the screen back to normal.

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Naked Snake said:

The manual has nothing to do with it, John Carmack *******ely programmed it that way. It has always given you this effect and was always inteded to be used this way.


I think this is now the newly raised dillema here. I personally don't think this is the case, however if you can provide proof that the original dos doom has this effect then please do.

Why is beserker classed as a powerup?

And what benefit could it have as something permanent to gameplay. It ruins the balance and has enabled to me to complete entire episodes on ultra-violence with no ammo!!

And if you look at how Doom 3 treats it, which could be representative of id software's approach to beserk, doom 3 treats it as a powerup! It comes and goes....does not stay. If they made it intentionally to stay in Doom why not carry it over?

Anyone care to elaborate or contradict?

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wallis said:

I think this is now the newly raised dillema here. I personally don't think this is the case, however if you can provide proof that the original dos doom has this effect then please do.

lol?

wallis said:

And what benefit could it have as something permanent to gameplay. It ruins the balance and has enabled to me to complete entire episodes on ultra-violence with no ammo!!

I expect tyson movies for all UDoom eps on my desk by tomorrow.

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kristus said:

Considering it was left unfixed for 9 versions, I think it's safe to say it's supposed to be like that. It's not something that is easy to miss. And it's the publishers job to make the manuals for the games.


The ouch face bug or Medikit in need bug weren't fixed either.

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wallis said:

I think this is now the newly raised dillema here. I personally don't think this is the case, however if you can provide proof that the original dos doom has this effect then please do.

[/B]
As someone said, one of the original demos shows berserk being used through E2M2 after the haze fades.

Why is beserker classed as a powerup?


Because it makes you more powerful?

And if you look at how Doom 3...


It was nearly useless in Doom 3. Seemed like it was just tacked on as a callback to the originals.

TheDarkArchon said:

The ouch face bug or Medikit in need bug weren't fixed either.

[/B]
That's a valid point, but neither of those really affect gameplay. I think something like the berserk pack would have been more important and fixing it would have been a much higher priority.

Marty Razor Kirra said:

Heh, I wasn't aware that it was permanent either! I thought it lasted till' the end of the level and that was it...wow, you learn something new everyday!

It..isn't permanent. It lasts to the end of the map.

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BEST POST EVER. Honest.

And, did you know that if you hold down the SHIFT key you can actually move around FASTER and run past most monsters and even avoid they fireballs? Ain't that KEWL? Maybe RUN should have a limit...

Not to mention that you can run and STRAFE at the same time, and dodge fireballs so easily it's almost cheating :-)

Not to mention, SHOOTING monsters from a distance instead of trying to avoid them or punching them at melee range is even easier ;-)

OK, to cut the cr@p, Berserk has always lasted 1 level, was meant to last 1 level, it doesn't last any more and doesn't last any less, either.

And no, it's not so "Godsend" that you can complete entire levels or episodes just by tysoning things unless you specialize in Tysoning of course.

The original Doom 1 episodes can maaaaaaaybe be largely completed by Tysoning since the number of monsters, their placement and their variety is no match for a seasoned doomer, even on UV and much less so
on lower difficulties.

The toughest thing that can come your way on an ordinary level is a Baron of Hell, and the next toughest thing is a Caco), but Doom 2 is already a lot harder and has a much more balanced spectrum of monsters and much more monsters with heavy long-range firepower, so no miracles there.

Most PWADS are also much tougher than the original episodes, and some pit you against hordes of monsters so, again, having the rough equivalent of a SSG-powered attack at melee range can be an ammo saver in some situations, but most others call either for running away or using some real firepower.

OK, you may tyson a baron of hell or two on a "man to man" duel, thanks to its dumb attack patterns, but that's it. Try tysoning a mancubus or a revenant: even if you land one or two hits, they will be able to fight back 90% of the time and punish you badly.

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Maes said:

Try tysoning a mancubus or a revenant

Bad example, try arachnotron next time.

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Actually, the chainsaw is WAAAY better than the berz punch, because it actually STUNS the cyberdemon :)) There's a gamefaqs guide which states that the "chainsaw is a good (but very risky) choice against cyberdemons" - no irony there. Reminds me of those dumb PROTIPS I saw the other place.

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printz said:
Actually, the chainsaw is WAAAY better than the berz punch, because it actually STUNS the cyberdemon :))

I think you might need to go back to DOOM School. The chain saw is pretty bad against a Cyberdemon, as you must maintain contact with it for too long to cause enough damage. And in engines that haven't altered the physics of the game using the chainsaw sort of pulls you onto your opponent. That can be disastrous if you're pecking at a Cyberdemon with a chain saw. With a berserk fist you can drive measured blows at the Cyberdemon and if you're nimble, kill him (various players have done this; xit vono even did it without the berserk pack, not counting the 50 bullets allowed on the Tyson category in E2M8).

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woah there maes, it's an honest question. No need to be an asshole over an honest question is there? People have answered the question so i've shut up, but you had to go and act like an asshole.

But thanks anyway......


asshole....

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Whoever either punches or cuts a cyberdemon is nuts all over... My chainsawing was a reference to a (n obscure) doom guide.

Use your
BFG9000 or the plasma cannon, and it's a good idea(but very risky)to use
the Chainsaw. First contact in the Trick and Traps level too

he said.

Yeeah, it's nothing too damn funny here, but for that moment maybe it was, maybe just for me.

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printz: OK, so you intended it as a humorous reference. But it should be pointed out that anyone who has specialized in the Tyson category (or played maps where you need to make extensive use of the melee weapons) will (or should!) have come to the conclusion that berserk is a far superior weapon to the chainsaw in most circumstances.

The main possible exception is that chainsaw might be safer from a health viewpoint (though slower) when fighting cacos, but that's arguable, and the fist (even non-berserk) is definitely safer in some cases.

wallis: Don't make posts like that please. You had made a number of posts putting forward an erroneous view of things, so at least a certain amount of light-hearted leg-pulling could be expected. It is kind of irritating when someone spreads misinformation on matters that have been well-established for more than a decade.

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I would say that the chainsaw is not significantly better against cacos than the berzerk. With chainsaw you can stun the cacodemon, but you still need to avoid getting hit before you start sawing it. Also, stunning the caco is not 100% reliable, especially if you are at the wrong angle, and the time it takes to use the chainsaw leaves you open to attacks from other monsters. I would say chainsaw is better against chaingunners though.

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printz said:

Whoever either punches or cuts a cyberdemon is nuts all over... My chainsawing was a reference to a (n obscure) doom guide.he said.


Well, in Cyberdreams there is a level where you have to punch a (fortunately stuck) cyberdemon to get to the exit, with NO berserker pack. Sure, it doesn't fight back, but you have to spend like 7-8 minutes punching the bare butt of some Cyberdemon just to get through....

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Maes said:

you have to spend like 7-8 minutes punching the bare butt of some Cyberdemon just to get through

O RLY?

Are you thinking of Eternal map13? Though that doesn't take so long (you only need to finish it off with the fist), and you certainly don't have to (or are expected to) kill it in order to exit.

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Grazza said:

O RLY?

Are you thinking of Eternal map13? Though that doesn't take so long (you only need to finish it off with the fist), and you certainly don't have to (or are expected to) kill it in order to exit.


No, I'm talking about Cyberdreams map 19.

Maybe the trick is, like you suggest with your timings page, to be REALLY QUICK in passing by the cybies. Otherwise, here what I figured is the standard way to finish it:

a) You let the archie hit you so you can jump past the unpassable sidedefs you're trapped...you step back and you teleport to a shooting grounds for two Cybies

b) A platform starts to lower, presumably with a teleport or something that will help you end the level, but you're badly hurt from the archie and too busy catching/dodging rockets from the cybies.

c) Platform lowers, it has something (a switch, if I recall) that causes the two cybies to become stuck in place.

There, the only way to walk to the exit without cheating (IDCLIP or jumping) is to pass through one of the cybies, and since you don't want to waste ammo....

I guess the "real pro" will rush to the cybies lanes before the platform even starts to lower and risk it all by trying to "zoom past" one of the cybies, but if you stick to the conservative way of waiting to get the cybies stuck, then you need several minutes of punching, unless they get stuck in a place that doesn't impede your passage.

I was unlucky, though, and both got stuck right in the middle of the "lanes", so I had to punch one of them to death :-(

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Are you playing in Zdoom? That changes the behaviour so that crusher doesn't work as intended. I don't know if there are any compat options relevant to that.

Anyway, if you play it (or watch the demos) using a more vanilla-like exe, then you'll see what is supposed to happen - i.e. the cybers are eventually killed by the crushing ceiling, rather than being completely immobilized by it.

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