Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)

[depr4vity]

E1M3 SM-Speed 0:39

h1s3-039.zip

[PVS]

depr4vity
Very clean runs and fast, nice to watch, a good start - right at the best times! On E1M7 your speed and crushers timers works together, great.
I read your txt, maybe I didn’t fully understand you, but Wings very easy to activate in original game - just press "Fly Up", no need select Wings in inventory, just like "Backspace" is a hotkey for Tome of Power. Alternative inventory switching method: "Shift + Enter", need practice, but I always use this method under recording, because it reproduced well when playback demos - the inventory switches exactly as the player had when recording. Maybe some of this information will come in handy.

JCD
Again trick? ok, it’s still lucky that this trick is on the way to a secret exit, otherwise we would have lost E5M3 from speed section forever. But it turned out fun, I agree, you are probably very thin so you can squeeze through the bars, I suspect this for a long time :)

Thanks for the ports, CHexen works fine for me. As far as I understand, questions and suggestions do not need to be asked, because they are no longer being developed, well, we will use it as it is.

Crispy Heretic
Need to test these demos on the latest Crispy versions, desync is possible due to the MAXSPECIALCROSS limit, I myself do not have the opportunity to launch new versions of the port, help:

https://dsdarchive.com/files/demos/heretic/658/crs1-106.zip

https://dsdarchive.com/files/demos/heretic/659/crs1-628.zip

Or to save time, you can use my test wad Specross and demo, this funny screenshot from there:

 

Specross.zip

[depr4vity]

11 minutes ago, PVS said:

I read your txt, maybe I didn’t fully understand you, but Wings very easy to activate in original game - just press "Fly Up", no need select Wings in inventory

 

i was told this on the DSDA discord, however i was told after the demo was created, i will definitely be using it in the future for sure, way easier than messing around with extra keys like before :P

[GoneAway]

@PVS

I tried running that Specross demo and I got a segmentation fault in crispy v5.7.1...

[Redneckerz]

18 hours ago, PVS said:

JCD
Again trick? ok, it’s still lucky that this trick is on the way to a secret exit, otherwise we would have lost E5M3 from speed section forever. But it turned out fun, I agree, you are probably very thin so you can squeeze through the bars, I suspect this for a long time :)

Thanks for the ports, CHexen works fine for me. As far as I understand, questions and suggestions do not need to be asked, because they are no longer being developed, well, we will use it as it is.

If anything else ill have a repository of all these ports ready somewhere soon, so that all are neatly tucked into their own directory, just in case. :)

[PVS]

5 hours ago, kraflab said:

I tried running that Specross demo and I got a segmentation fault in crispy v5.7.1...

Thanks, this means that the limit is still present in Crispy Heretic and this 2 demos for Curse.wad should also go into desync or even cause the engine to crash. We’ll wait a bit, maybe the author will notice this here, because he said many times that Heretic/Hexen does not interest him, I’m afraid to bother him for this reason.

Redneckerz
Do not forget to leave the link when you have something ready.
 

[GoneAway]

You might want to mention it here: https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/crispy-doom/issues/240

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, PVS said:

Thanks, this means that the limit is still present in Crispy Heretic and this 2 demos for Curse.wad should also go into desync or even cause the engine to crash. We’ll wait a bit, maybe the author will notice this here, because he said many times that Heretic/Hexen does not interest him, I’m afraid to bother him for this reason.

Redneckerz
Do not forget to leave the link when you have something ready.
 

Ofcourse not :) Ill make sure Heretic gets noticed!

[PVS]

kraflab

Do it if you have the opportunity. On my old PC I can browse github a little, but I can not register there.
 

[fabian]

You guys might be interested in this:

https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/crispy-doom/commit/62949d06e4e2fffec10f9e2c33745e402b1a13da

 

This is the corresponding EXE:

 

 

crispy-heretic_5.7.2+git5a6726c4.zip

Edited March 16, 2020 by fabian : It's version 5.7.2, not 5.7.3

[PVS]

fabian
Great, but please add a message in stderr.txt that SPECHIT limit is doubled, as you have done for most of the other limits. This should be important for vanilla map authors, because they should try to avoid such incorrect situations if they make a vanilla map, this information can help them. INTERCEPTS error message not so important, in my opinion, because it is always a crash for vanilla engine, which is immediately noticeable.

Another small request: Heretic/Hexen net demo playback. I'm sure you don't need this, but I prepared this example for choco team more than three years ago, here need change only one line, 2 minutes for both games:

Spoiler

most likely the forum is reformatting the code now, post code button not works for me, sorry

g_game.c
void G_Ticker(void)
{
   ....

   //NET DEMO PLAYBACK: For demoplayback possible skip this / PVS
   //if (netgame && !(gametic % ticdup))
   if (!demoplayback && netgame && !(gametic % ticdup))
   {
     if (gametic > BACKUPTICS
         && consistancy[buf] != cmd->consistancy)
     {
         I_Error("consistency failure (%i should be %i)",
         cmd->consistancy, consistancy[buf]);
     }
     if (players.mo)
         consistancy[buf] = players.mo->x;
     else
         consistancy[buf] = rndindex;
   }

   ....
} 

Heretic coop demos examples:

https://dsdarchive.com/files/demos/heretic/436/c1m1j113.zip

https://dsdarchive.com/files/demos/heretic/438/h1c1s027.zip

command line for tests:
crispy-heretic -solo-net -playdemo c1m1j113
crispy-heretic -solo-net -playdemo h1c1s027

Also I have information about choco/crispy Hexen desyncs and problems, I can appear in your topic or PM, it doesn’t matter, the main thing is to fix it, if you are interested - let me know. It matters to me, for to calmly tell someone in the future - take a new choco/crispy and record demos, and not be afraid that they will record a desync demo in their own format.

Edited March 16, 2020 by PVS

[depr4vity]

E2M2 SM-Speed 0:34

E2M2 NoMo 0:30

h2s2-034.zip

h2o23097.zip

[PVS]

depr4vity
I think I understand what is happening, you guys finish your regular "Beat 1000 Records Month" and you can't stop :)
I watched your last E2M2 about 20 times, I really like it, it's good that crispy allows you to record so cleanly. "ass forward" wall glide at the end of nomo you consider as mistake, as far as I understand, but this moment really smiled me, thanks

Heretic have enough empty positions in the table for iwad, these are mainly Pacifist (ep5) and almost empty Tyson, there are also some kind of mystical demos, which can only be record in theory: h3p8, h4p8, h5p8 and h5n8. In my opinion, the most mystical demo is h5p8, h5n8 I periodically try to record for several years, just for fun, not successful yet. Maybe this information will interest you.
 

[fabian]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:30 AM, PVS said:

fabian
Great, but please add a message in stderr.txt that SPECHIT limit is doubled, as you have done for most of the other limits.

 

Sounds like a good idea, done that.

 

On 3/17/2020 at 12:30 AM, PVS said:

Another small request: Heretic/Hexen net demo playback. I'm sure you don't need this, but I prepared this example for choco team more than three years ago, here need change only one line, 2 minutes for both games:

 

Where did you have this reported before? The fix seems alright, Doom already has a similar condition there.

 

On 3/17/2020 at 12:30 AM, PVS said:

Also I have information about choco/crispy Hexen desyncs and problems, I can appear in your topic or PM, it doesn’t matter, the main thing is to fix it, if you are interested - let me know. It matters to me, for to calmly tell someone in the future - take a new choco/crispy and record demos, and not be afraid that they will record a desync demo in their own format.

 

Well, it won't help to throw everything at my feet in this thread. Everything sync-related (that doesn't involve raising limits) is relevant for the Chocolate project. Development takes place at Github, so it would be most appreciated if you could take the issues there. Alternatively, please post your concerns into the Choco thread in the Source Ports forum. We are definitely interested in improving demo compatibility and any help will be appreciated (especially for Heretic, which hasn't seen much love since it was added to the code base).

 

[PVS]

fabian
Understandably. I have posts in Choco thread about Hexen state, no response, that’s why I tried to ask you here. But I think I know what the problem is - it’s my bad English, the guys just can’t understand me, I always apologized for it. Ok, then I don’t even know how I can still help, I can use only this forum to contact developers.
 

[fabian]

You could bring these issues back to attention by quoting them in the Choco thread and posting something like "Hello?" or "ping". Or you file them as bugs on the issue tracker at Github. But I am not going to dig through these threads myself, sorry. 

[plums]

Is there any reason not to use -demoextend when recording or playing back demos? Now that Crispy Heretic is included as part of Crispy Doom again, I've been making some simple patches. I was thinking of making -demoextend always be used, or at least be the default, but I thought I should make sure that this isn't a bad decision.

[GoneAway]

When you play a demo back to get the exact time (frame count) you omit demoextend so that the frame count stops at the exit directly.

[plums]

Ah, that is useful indeed. Thanks.

[PVS]

Sometimes people are lazy to read documentation and do not know anything about Heretic/Hexen -demoextend in choco. Even more - I do not see any documentation in the latest archives of the Crispy project, I have to look for it on the Internet, why? You guys are talking about -demoextend, but didn’t you forget about another important choco -shortticfix command for recording demos?

I think it happened just by chance and was not originally planned, but -demoextend adds interesting combinations of functional in choco, about one of these combination kraflab says, this is not possible to do on vvHeretic. In my opinion for easier use for people - need reverse logic in these commands, when -demoextend and -shortticfix will works by default, but it can be disabled by using new commands like '-noDemoextend' and '-noShortticfix', i.e. functional is not removed. This reverse is easy to do in the source, for me it works without any problems.
 

[GoneAway]

I agree with PVS, especially with -shortticfix, it would be great if these were on by default and had to be disabled with an option.

[GarrettChan]

Side question, if I want to play the game normally with -shorttics, can I just create a shortcut of crispy-heretic.exe and add the parameter after it? It seems it doesn't work on me.

[PVS]

GarrettChan
Chocolate/Crispy Heretic not have command -shorttics. If you meant -shortticfix, then it works and needed only for demorecording process, this command not works in single game and demoplayback.
 

[plums]

Crispy Heretic will have demoextend and shortticfix as the default for the next release. They can be disabled with the params -nodemoextend and -noshortticfix respectively.

 

I'll add them to Crispy Hexen as well. Even though it doesn't have a proper release, it might at some point.

 

On 4/25/2020 at 2:35 PM, PVS said:

Even more - I do not see any documentation in the latest archives of the Crispy project

 

Crispy Heretic has info about things like demoextend in its man pages, but maybe these are not available on Windows. I'll take a look at making the documentation more obvious.

 

@GarrettChan like PVS said, -shorttics doesn't exist in Crispy (or Chocolate) Heretic or Hexen. I'll see about adding them, but no promises -- I'm not a very experienced coder, so it might be beyond me. I'll file an issue if I can't implement it myself, though.

[PVS]

Why this -shorttics command is needed, what should it do?

plums
It's good that you do this for Heretic/HeXen, I hope you like the games themselves.
 

[plums]

I certainly do like them!

 

In Chocolate Doom, -shorttics emulates the lower turning resolution you get when recording demos (without longtics of course), so you can practice with the same feeling as when recording a demo. I think PrBoom+ has it as an option too.

[GarrettChan]

To PVS:

 

I'm not a native, so sometimes comprehending sentences is kind of tough to me... I just want to make sure what does "-shortticfix" do? It means that you can record demos in longtics? I did read the previous posts and it seems I can't find out the answer by myself...

 

At least for Doom, recording a demo forces you into -shorttics mode, and since I have to record on -shorttics, I prefer my practice in -shorttics too, so this won't screw up my control. I added "-shorttics" to my all PrBoom+ shortcuts, so I always play in -shorttics.

 

To plums:

 

No worry, I understand these projects take your free time, so I should appreciate them no matter how it is going to be. Right now, Crispy Heretic is really nice to have the kill counter and secret reveal messages since it's helpful for me to do a commentary video or something like that (I don't like using ZDoom ports since it changes so many behaviors). I probably won't run Heretic demos, so not having "-shorttics" is not that big of a deal. It's just I'm so used to "-shorttics", now I feel weird when playing in longtics, which is totally reversed lol.

[plums]

1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

I just want to make sure what does "-shortticfix" do?

In Vanilla Heretic, when you record a demo, turning to the left is much slower/rougher than normal, and turning to the right is faster/more sensitive. IIRC this was also the case in Doom 1.2, which is what the Heretic/Hexen sources were based on. -shortticfix in Chocolate/Crispy corrects this behaviour.

 

-shorttics would be good to have in Heretic, even if it doesn't get used much.

[GarrettChan]

4 hours ago, plums said:

In Vanilla Heretic, when you record a demo, turning to the left is much slower/rougher than normal, and turning to the right is faster/more sensitive. IIRC this was also the case in Doom 1.2, which is what the Heretic/Hexen sources were based on. -shortticfix in Chocolate/Crispy corrects this behaviour.

 

-shorttics would be good to have in Heretic, even if it doesn't get used much.

Hmm, interesting. I tried it without the fix, and I finally understand what you're talking about. Thanks for the info.

[JCD]

E5M8 NM-Speed in 6:43

h5n8-643.zip