Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)

nice analysis PVS, I didn't know all of this about the -respawn parameter :)

What engine/sourceport do you use to determine this ?

Heretic episode 1 Max in 48:25
it's an old and unoptimized record :p

h1ma4825.zip

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Information about -respawn parameter I see in the Heretic source code.

A small story...

I use my modification for the old jHeretic port (beta 0.93) by Jaakko Keranen. I am familiar with the Doomsday for a long time, but only in the last year I found that its beta versions (were released at the beginning of 2000) are compatible with the original demo format. In those days Doomsday consisted of separate beta versions - jHeretic, jHexen and jDoom, each of them supports the original demos. However, the first final versions of jHeretic 1.0, jHexen 1.0 and jDoom 1.0 (released at the end 2001) - already is not support the original demos, Doomsday has own demo format not compatible with original.

I've always liked Heretic and liked to watch demo records for him in DosBox, because I do not know the modern source port for Heretic with the support of the original demos and without the bugs and limitations. In early 2013, I was very surprised when I found that the jHeretic v0.93 can record/playback original demos. I started to test the work of the original demos from the Heretic-N archive and found that in jHeretic v0.93 normally work about 20-30% of the demos, others have desync and crash problem. Also that old jHeretic release have many original Heretic limitations for the demo record/playback.

I'm not a programmer by profession, I have only a small hobby to this and I decided to try to change something in jHeretic 0.93 version to improve the record/playback process and to make it more reliable and convenient. I found old Doomsday source code and after some time I was able to compile a working jHeretic version, then I got the opportunity to change the game engine. At the moment I was able to make a number of changes and fixes in the port for the demo record/playback process, now this jHeretic modification can do almost anything that can do vv's hack, but there are still a number of issues and questions.

This modification may be of interest only to Heretic speedrunners, because process of record/playback demos in it is much more convenient and easier than in DosBox: possible record and play demos without leaving the game, HUD speedtimers allow you to see your progress on the map in real time while recording a demo, look result after finishing level in the jHeretic console and log file, group several separate demos in the playlist and play them automatically, have a bit better graphics than in DosBox, etc.
But in general - this modification of the jHeretic still the old technology today, may have problems with modern computer equipment and systems, very hardcore - not user friendly in the use. For me on the WinXP system this version works stable.

My English is not good, sorry, I do not even know how much will be understandably all I wrote here, but in any case, I decided to try to tell my little story about this little project for Heretic original demos, maybe someone will be interested. About a year ago, in my post, I cited several video examples where you can see the demo playback process from Heretic-N on this jHeretic modification.

-----------------------------------

JCD
Your Episode-1 Max demo is great! I do not even know, how you did not forget a single monster :)
May be you interested more accurate time-statistics for this demo record from jHeretic0.93(se):

*
DEMO PLAYBACK: start [h1ma4825.lmp]

----- Start Map: E1M1 <> Skill Level: 4 -----
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:16.83
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 02:55.23
> Level statistics <> Kills: 44/44 Items: 2/2 Secrets: 4/4

----- Next Map: E1M2 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:59.37
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 03:43.31
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 04:43.03
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 05:46.74 <> Summary time: 08:41.97
> Level statistics <> Kills: 153/153 Items: 17/17 Secrets: 7/7

----- Next Map: E1M3 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:52.37
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 02:43.51
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 04:37.46 <> Summary time: 13:19.43
> Level statistics <> Kills: 117/117 Items: 9/9 Secrets: 2/2

----- Next Map: E1M4 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 02:43.34
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 04:04.80
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 05:20.06 <> Summary time: 18:39.49
> Level statistics <> Kills: 109/109 Items: 13/12 Secrets: 1/1

----- Next Map: E1M5 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:36.51
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 01:52.57
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 02:24.43
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 07:07.23 <> Summary time: 25:46.71
> Level statistics <> Kills: 121/121 Items: 18/20 Secrets: 4/4

----- Next Map: E1M6 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:12.57
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 04:29.49
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 07:08.69 <> Summary time: 32:55.40
> Level statistics <> Kills: 139/139 Items: 24/24 Secrets: 8/8

----- Next Map: E1M9 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 01:49.80
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 03:16.40
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 04:42.71
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 06:57.94 <> Summary time: 39:53.34
> Level statistics <> Kills: 113/113 Items: 18/19 Secrets: 2/2

----- Next Map: E1M7 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:39.60
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 03:45.86
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 05:09.11
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 08:35.43 <> Summary time: 48:28.77
> Level statistics <> Kills: 162/162 Items: 18/18 Secrets: 6/6

----- Next Map: E1M8 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 04:15.06 <> Summary time: 52:43.83
> Level statistics <> Kills: 62/62 Items: 27/37 Secrets: 4/4

DEMO PLAYBACK: finish [h1ma4825.lmp]

I will wait your new demos for Heretic-N archive!

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Sorry for my late answer :/

it's nice that you can make jheretic work with vv hack :D
i'm really interested because i want a source port like prboom+ for heretic, but i can't find the vv hack code anywhere ...

I'm trying to make coop max demo with ch0wW (on vv hack exe) but it's impossible to determine if all monsters are killed and know the real players stats :/

if your engine modification can do that, i'm interested to get it, if you allow that of course :D

The old incoming folder is here : http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/temp/
I have to upload some Opulent's demo. And i have to update the heretic-n database ^^
my best demo is maybe h5s7-050 ( http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/temp/h5s7-050.zip )

Thanks for analysis my max episode demo :D

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That logging output is very nice.
Of course, I, too, would like your modified jHeretic.
I promise not to distribute.

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For jHeretic 0.93(se) is not needed vv's hack, previously I had in mind, that the ability to record/playback demos I try to bring as close as possible to the vv's hack. Unfortunately, multiplayer demos do not work correctly in jHeretic 0.93, most likely I fail to improve it, because the network code is entirely different and difficult for me. Currently it can represent of interest only to single-player demos.

I started to work with a small jHeretic compatibility with the Heretic-N demo records, which is was about 20%. Currently, from the 605 demos - normally played 595, recording always stable and has backward compatibility with Heretic 1.3 or Heretic 1.3 + vv's hack. But there remain a number of main issues, such as: not possible to change the midi music volume directly from the game menu, not all demos work fine when using GL-Nodes which used a new renderer and main question - how stable this old jHeretic work on the new systems and computers.

At this time I need help from Heretic speedrunners who knows the Heretic-N rules, because now jHeretic have additional features that need to be automatically disable in demo record process for conformity to Heretic-N rules. This must be done in the source, so that the player was not able to enable them himself. The main questions I will try to explain later, I hope someone has delivered its opinion.

If I do now release my modification which contains not honest additional features to record demos process - it will not be correct, I think you will agree with me. And of course, I must also get permission from Jaakko Keranen, the main jHeretic (Doomsday) author.

I know that not many people are interested in Heretic demos, in recent years I see only one active Heretic speedrunner, in any case - thanks Vince for what many years to collect, record and store all demos in the Heretic-N archive and today someone continues his work.

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Understood.

And yes, Vincent Catalaa is the sole person to thank for Heretic demos.
Just like Andy Olivera is the main person to thank for single-player DOOM demos.
And Laura Herrmann for deathmatch DOOM demos.

No one else even comes close in each of those three categories.

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Looked several times this coop, but did not understand your little tower trick :)

Questions I wanted to ask about demo recording process for conformity to Heretic-N rules. The original jHeretic 0.93 have additional features in single-player, such as mouselook, jumping, etc. All this features automatically shut off when start demo recording and the process becomes similar to the original Heretic 1.3. Some additions I blocked myself, but there are a few small differences from the original, which I doubt - should be turned off or can leave.

1. "Always run" setting. I think every Heretic speedrunner uses always run (can be put a mug of coffee on the need key, etc) but jHeretic have easy setting for it. I think we can leave this addition for recording process.

2. Fullscreen HUD. Heretic 1.3 have only life count and items on HUD, jHeretic also shows armor, keys, ammo and crosshair on this screen. In the Heretic 1.3 we can enable status bar view, which contains all this information too, so I think we can leave this fullscreen HUD in jHeretic for demo recording. See the screenshot below, I hope they will be visible for all.



3. Possibility to change "Field of view" (FOV). I think original Heretic have FOV around 95, on the screenshots below it is shown begin of E5M8 map: DosBox, jHeretic (FOV-95) and jHeretic (FOV-180). The ability to change FOV affects only that player can see more details around than the original Heretic. I currently do not know - is it possible to leave this opportunity for a fair recording process?



On the other hand, play with higher resolution with a small FOV not comfortable. For example, for screen resolution 1920x1080 I use FOV around 130-150 in single-player or demo playback, this is the most comfortable for me.

4. jHeretic allows use the individual keys for each items in game. In the original game the player does not have this feature, which is somewhat faster and helps in the process of using items. I think this feature should be blocked for demorecording.

------------------

These are the main questions I wanted to ask, would be grateful for any opinions. And also, let me know if I missed something in mind, and we need block something else.

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PVS said:

Questions I wanted to ask about demo recording process for conformity to Heretic-N rules. The original jHeretic 0.93 have additional features in single-player, such as mouselook, jumping, etc. All this features automatically shut off when start demo recording and the process becomes similar to the original Heretic 1.3. Some additions I blocked myself, but there are a few small differences from the original, which I doubt - should be turned off or can leave.



Since no one answered, I'll say a few words of my personal opinion.

1) Always run -- I have always considered this to be a cheat. I never used it. I might be the only Compet-N-level player that considers it a cheat though. I would assume(as you have) that almost all players use this.
Key manipulation and ease of "strafe50" use is the main reason why the "Windows" ports are cheats and the multiplayer ports like zdaemon/odamex/zandronum are a joke in comparison to the real game.

2) Fullscreen HUD -- not a cheat IMO. The player still has to PLAY the game.

3) FOV changes -- such a minimal benefit factor... that is offset by a distorted view. I don't see this as a cheat.

4) Artifact quick-keys -- I agree, this isn't faithful to the real game and shouldn't be allowed.


sounds cool, if you ask me.

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Its interesting someone is finally working on making a Heretic port that is compatible with the original heretic demos.

That would be really handy for my Youtube channel and replace the ugly 320x200 videos!

I am still not sure about allowing any ports for demo recording though. I would have to wrap my mind around this.

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Hi Vincent, is well that you remembered this topic! I hope to see some of your new demos, dated 2014 :)
As I have said here before - this modification of the jHeretic still the old technology today, this also applies to graphics, so I doubt, that it can be of interest to update your channel videos.

I would like to know your opinion, at the expense of questions that I asked in the previous message. I absolutely agree with Opulent and now Artifact hotkeys is blocked for the demo record. What do you think - is it possible to leave Always run, Fullscreen HUD and FOV changes, or some of them also need to block for an honest record? I forgot to mention, that jHeretic have crosshair on HUD and possible to use the mouse wheel, for example, I use it to change weapons. I do not see any more extra features in jHeretic relative to original game. When recording started - everything is automatically disabled, for conformity to Heretic-N rules.

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FOV, HUD and always run do not bother me.

However the mousewheel for weapons should not be allowed as it's an advantage over people using heretic.exe . Stick with the numbers for recording.

Same goes with the crosshair, it should not be there.

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"Stick with the numbers for recording" - I do not quite understand what you mean, my English is not good, sorry.

Mousewheel and crosshair - I'll see what I can do. Let me know if I missed something in mind, and we need block something else.

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My attempt for noMonsters:
E4M2 - 01:08.11
E5M2 - 01:08.03

Time not good, I record them for the reason, because do not see demos for this maps in category, and now nomonsters table maybe complete.

If someone, in the last couple of years recorded demos for Heretic-N - share them please.

h4o2&h5o2.zip

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Some demos here :

Coop
H1M1 SM Max 2P in 1:13
Episode 1 SM Speed 2P in 5:58
Episode 2 SM Speed 2P in 5:04

SM Speed
H3M2 in 0:31
H4M2 in 0:32

SM Max
Episode 2 in 60:48
Episode 3 in 59:33

NMS (new category)
H1M1 in 0:45

Nomonsters
H4M2 in 0:30
H4M9 in 1:34
H5M2 in 0:56

Tyson
H1M1 in 1:52


Txts don't have comments because I made them quickly ...
I still have other demos (a lot of Coops), but I have to find them, name them, and make the txts ^^

jcnewhdemos.zip

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I improved my time on E5o2 to 01:04.29, with my standart route, of course. And again, as with my previous attempt for E3o4 - you already have in E5o2 0:56, and with nice trik, he he

I see yours cool bomb-jump on E4o2, I was so worn out with these map linedefs then record my demo. I think you can improve your time on E4o2 if use chaos device near blue key, but don't know - how much is difficult to do this bomb-jump trick, I tried for 15 minutes - can not get this green key! In any case, it is good that nomonsters table now complete and improve, I did not know about it.

Thanks for these demos, at the moment I was able to playback Episode 3 Max (3 times!), like to watch full episode records!
If need, more accurate statistics for your Episode 3 Max:

Spoiler

DEMO PLAYBACK: start [H3ma5933.lmp]
----- Start Map: E3M1 <> Skill Level: 4 ------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 02:57.37
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 03:16.66
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 05:17.20
> Level statistics <> Kills: 78/78 Items: 10/10 Secrets: 2/2

----- Next Map: E3M2 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 01:10.83
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 02:54.49
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 06:11.26
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 06:20.09 <> Summary time: 11:37.29
> Level statistics <> Kills: 99/99 Items: 25/26 Secrets: 3/3

----- Next Map: E3M3 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:06.60
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 00:57.20
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 03:44.97
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 07:48.51 <> Summary time: 19:25.80
> Level statistics <> Kills: 136/136 Items: 30/29 Secrets: 9/9

----- Next Map: E3M4 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 03:09.00
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 04:08.51
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 08:35.20 <> Summary time: 28:01.00
> Level statistics <> Kills: 159/159 Items: 27/29 Secrets: 13/13

----- Next Map: E3M9 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:24.60
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 02:17.26
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 03:36.14
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 06:16.51 <> Summary time: 34:17.51
> Level statistics <> Kills: 90/90 Items: 15/14 Secrets: 7/7

----- Next Map: E3M5 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:49.66
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 04:45.54
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 08:03.83 <> Summary time: 42:21.34
> Level statistics <> Kills: 103/103 Items: 22/22 Secrets: 4/4

----- Next Map: E3M6 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:57.94
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 04:24.00
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 06:54.49
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 08:33.63 <> Summary time: 50:54.97
> Level statistics <> Kills: 105/105 Items: 24/23 Secrets: 10/10

----- Next Map: E3M7 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 02:12.17
> SpeedTimer: Green key time: 04:27.46
> SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 05:59.00
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 08:41.29 <> Summary time: 59:36.26
> Level statistics <> Kills: 117/117 Items: 32/31 Secrets: 10/10

----- Next Map: E3M8 <> Skill Level: 4 -------
> SpeedTimer: Last level time: 03:15.29 <> Summary time: 01:02:51.54
> Level statistics <> Kills: 23/22 Items: 14/14 Secrets: 3/3
DEMO PLAYBACK: finish [H3ma5933.lmp]

JCD, if statistics like that not need for you - say me.

Also, I am glad to see that you and your friends stay near Heretic demorecording, your coop demos very interesting for me, you guys - crazy Heretic-guys :) I did not know before that the chicken can squeeze through the bars, and funny to watch other original game engine "features" - like take Y-key on E3M2.

About coop and netgames, maybe you don't know: in the last couple of months - in the Chocolate Heretic/Hexen has been added demoextend features for demo record/playback, now this project has almost everything we need, like vvHeretic. For online play Chocolate has a new/improved network code. To try these features you need to use the latest unstable builds, for win32 you can take them from page here: http://latest.chocolate-doom.org/
I think you need to look and test latest Chocolate Heretic, maybe it more easy and convenient to use for network play, compared to the use DosBox + vvHeretic.

I will wait your new Heretic demos, also you probably forgot to put in archive 'Episode 2 Max', I would like to see it. In any case - I'm still here, you can contact me at any time.

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I'm glad you like my demos :)

For e4o2, I was so happy to get that green key grab, I totally forgot about another shortcut :p

I like your statistics :)

About Chocolate heretic, it can't playback correctly my coop demos. So I will continue to use Dos :p

I made a big mistake in my zip archive, h1o7-050 is a demo of Kimo Xvirus, not me. I thought I did it too ...

Here is my Episode 2 Max

I'll see if I have other demos :)

h2ma6048.zip

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In Chocolate Heretic you have something like "Consistency Failure" engine errors when you are trying to playback coop demos? I see similar errors, it seemed to me that Chocolate can normally play these demos, but maybe I'm wrong. I think, Chocolate can normally record net demos, but I have not much tested this, need more testing results, maybe you test - how Chocolate Heretic record net demos?

About your coop: in 'H1M1 SM Max 2P' how you checked Kills/Secrets counts for max rules? In stats screen I see result 79/20% kills count for 2 players. Your coop records led me to an idea - that need more accurate and separate statistics for each player in net demos, I think this is not problem, because Heretic engine have this statistics when he playback such net records.

Your 'Episode 2 Max' causes a serious internal engine error for my small jHeretic work. Maybe you remember - something strange not happened for you when you end E2M6 and started E2M7 map during this record? I see that this is only my problem, because vvHeretic and Chocolate Heretic can normally start E2M7 then playback this demo, but my project can not. I'm never seen this engine error before, this causes for me only with h2ma6048.lmp, good that I have a specific name error, not silent engine crash, but I absolutely do not understand this part of the engine code, oh...
You know, at the moment I was playback this your MAX demo 5 times, and every time I need to watch about 50 min, for to get this error, because I do not have any 'speed' feature, like vvHeretic have :)

I'm interested in any demo records for Heretic/Hexen in original format, not only speedruns for Heretic-N. If you have any demos for Heretic PWAD's or something else, interesting in your opinion - I'd like to see them too, I collect these demos. Maybe you with your friends record any Heretic deathmatch demos? I have never seen no one Heretic-DM record in original format, because this is not possible for vanilla, record normal Heretic-DM demos. At this time, such records is possible on vvHeretic and, maybe, on Chocolate Heretic too.

-----------------
EDIT: JCD, Pacifist table have any demo for E2M8? I don't see now, but maybe you have your not public record, again :)

-----------------
EDIT 2: Upload my attempt for Pacifist in Incoming:
http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/Incoming/h2p81120.zip

E2M8 - 11:20

At this time I do not see other variants for pacifist on this map. My third successful attempt, this funny demo.
Soon Heretic birthday, for me it 20 December, this demo for all Heretic fans!

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Idk about recording chocolate heretic net demos ... I prefer recording under DOS

About my coop max run, I have a modified heretic Dos executable with coop stats :

It's really weird about my episode 2 max run, I don't have any errors when I playback it ... I don't remember a possible mistake when I recorded it, sorry about that :/

Do you like hexen run ? https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1698404
:p

If I have some time, I'll try some 1v1 with Ch0wW on Heretic :D

And here is some new demos :
E1M8 Coop Smite-Meister in 0:20
E3M8 Coop Smite-Meister in 0:54
E4M2 Coop Smite-Meister in 0:29

jccoophdemos.zip

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Sorry for the double post

I never did demo in pacifist on e2m8 because I didn't have a correct strategy to kill the 3 maulotaurs ^^

But thanks to your demo, PVS, you proved me that this map was possible with all the crushers (yeah, I didn't remember that there were crushers in this map xD)

So here's my attempt, with a void glide finally useful ! :D

h2p8-257.zip

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It is really funny, how these maulotaurs obediently come to you, for me they did not want to go, heh. I watched the rest maps: E3M8-E5M8 for pacifist capability and don't have any idea, how to do it. I think, pacifist for E5M8 even more impossible than Nightmare, Nightmare have some 'theoretical' possibility, but pacifist...? Pacifist on E5M8 will never be recorded, in my opinion. But maybe someone will find some kind of tricks, how are you doing in your demos :)

In coop h4c2-029 you get the green key with helped original game engine "features", but again you forgot about chaos device, it could save 5 seconds for you. Like E3M8, nice coop work, this D'Sparil it became a pity!

This is your Heretic modification - what is the name have? And that it - something similar to vvHeretic (you patching the original exe) or you compile separate exe from Raven source? Now it is clear to me, how you checked Kills/Secrets counts for coop MAX, but I hope - you do not have this cheat on the screen during the demo recording? For demoplayback, I agree - it is must have, but for recording - this is not hornest cheat, in my opinion.
In any case - it's great, that the Heretic/Hexen has more modifications now, and modifications exactly for demo record/playback, if you ever decide to publish your work.

At the expense of your 'Episode 2 Max' - do not worry, it's not your modification problem, as I said above, this lmp have normal playback on vvHeretic and Chocolate Heretic, this is the maximum, that you should care. But I am absolutely sure, that in the demos txt-files - should indicate the correct name of the game-exe, which this demo recorded. Not correct, indicate vvHeretic, but in fact - it is recorded entirely in another game-exe.

About Heretic-DM demos: if you really interested in this, ofcourse - record demos, I would like to see this hilarious action in original demo format! Heretic have very cool and funny DM, I know it exactly. And I can keep you company in DM, but in this time - I can try use only Chocolate Heretic for network play, use for network DosBox+vvHeretic impossible for me now.

Your Hexen demo I can not playback and can not look it on youtube, and the truth - I do not like watch the demo-video, I like to watch the live demo playback on the real game engine :)

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Episode 3 - Smite-Meister, Speed movie in 7:07 (e3m8 excluded) 

 

i was originally going for a good run of all the maps together but i got really unlucky on the last level and d'sparil teleported around a lot. every other level aside from that was very good though, especially e3m1 (0:24!!) so i decided to submit the demo anyways. hopefully i can get a run this good again with a decent e3m8

 

 

EDIT: i accidentally uploaded the incorrect demo, check the post below

Edited by veovisRC

Posted (edited)

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I can't watch your demo, it desynch on e3m1 on heretic.exe (or with the vv's hack).

I think it's because it was recorded with chocolate doom ...

 

Times look good anyway

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ah, shit. i normally record on heretic.exe, but the last time i recorded a demo in chocolate heretic, it synched just fine. so i just assumed it was fine to use it. guess i was wrong. i'll see if i can get some more demos on heretic.exe

 

EDIT: wait, i figured it out... i accidentally zipped up the wrong demo! i don't know how i managed to do that... i found the correct demo and tested it in heretic.exe (with vv hack) and it syncs correctly. sorry for the confusion... i've been doing doom runs for a couple years but i rarely upload any of my demos because i usually think they aren't good enough. so of course the one time i try to upload one, i screw it up :P

h3sp-707.zip

Edited by veovisRC
1 person likes this

Posted (edited)

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Latest stable Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 have good and right sync with original Heretic 1.3, I don't see any problems for this time. I wont see any demo file example, where Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 record wrong and desync demo, or can't playback any demo. Anybody have such bad result? Show me please.


veovisRC

Your demo is very good, really, this time is great! You have normal time 1:43 on E3M8, I don't know, why you think, that this time is not good, may be you want more close to 0:54 by Kimo Xvirus? :)  I think, for whole episode run - this 1:43 is good finish, with d'sparil need some lucky moments any way.

I'm not understand - in first time you upload broken demo record with the same time 7:07? You record 2 separate demos with time 7:07, how it possible? Or you use any programs for modification resulting demo file? In this demo you very quick skipped intermissions screens, but have 3:20 idle time in the end, strange.


Glad to see new (for me) Heretic guy! I hope to see more new demo records by veovisRC, any way! :)
 

Edited by PVS

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the first demo i uploaded was not a 7:07, it was just a random e3m1 attempt that didn't get past the first iron lich jump. when i was making the zip file with the demo, i accidentally zipped up the wrong demo, hence the confusion. anyways, the reason i skipped the intermissions so fast was because i was also playing for "real time" (speedrun.com has its own leaderboards for Heretic, where they use both in-game time and real time. i figured i may as well try to be fast in both) as for the outro, i just forgot to end the demo right away after i finished (was talking to someone at the same time). like i said, i dont usually upload my demos, so i'm still kind of learning what is and isnt acceptable. i'll make sure not to skip through the intermissions so quickly next time, it makes it kind of a pain to check the times. 

Edited by veovisRC

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veovisRC
Understandably. In my opinion, have few seconds on the intermissions screens is better and more clearly, and this easy help to check demo times, yes (but we can timing demo anyway). This is not big necessary, even if you want to be comply with Heretic-N rules. If you need any help for Heretic demorecording in original format - you can ask here, we will try to help, also, you may upload your demos in upload page for current Heretic-N database by JCD:
http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/upload.php

JCD
If you reed this: what do you think about adding section to the Heretic-N database with PWADs demo records? For example:

Category: Heretic first attempts (HFA) / first demo attempts (FDA)
Rules: Record demo on the map that never seen before, during recording allowed death and reborn,
after death continue to play from scratch, allowed uncompleted attempts and any skill levels.

This is a similar category with FDA demos for Doom. Also, we may adding more PWADs categories: Heretic PWAD Max (HPM) and Heretic PWAD Speed (HPS), for this categories - death not allowed.
Formats for PWADs demos: original Heretic 1.3 (vvHeretic4, Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 can be used for first attempts records with death), original + limit removing (for wads which require limit removing - can be used combination vvHeretic4 + Heretic-Plus).

PWAD category maybe not a part of main Heretic-N competition, only as addition to it, but will be together in one database. I see one reason for this demos - show other good maps/wads for Heretic, show them through demo records, maybe it will also be interesting to someone. This demos may not be "high-speed" (especially first attempts demos), may have long playback time, etc.

If you interesting this idea and can add PWAD section in your Heretic-N page - tell me, details for rules, names, etc. can be discussed. In last times I record about 60 Heretic first attempts demos for PWADs, gradually I could write some txt-files for them and upload to database.
 

Edited by PVS
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14 minutes ago, PVS said:

JCD
If you reed this: what do you think about adding section to the Heretic-N database with PWADs demo records?

The new DSDA is going to also host all heretic and heretic pwad demos, fyi :^)

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On 3/24/2017 at 7:17 PM, PVS said:

If you interesting this idea and can add PWAD section in your Heretic-N page - tell me, details for rules, names, etc. can be discussed. In last times I record about 60 Heretic first attempts demos for PWADs, gradually I could write some txt-files for them and upload to database.
 

That sounds fantastic.  Obviously the best improvement possible to the Heretic demos that already exist.

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kraflab
It's good that other database's, other people want support Heretic/Hexen demo recording, I'm glad to know about it. Now I looked at the DSDA page hoping to find some new Heretic demos for me, but don't find. In this time this database does not contain Heretic/Hexen demos, right? Also, if I understand correctly, at this time DSDA under reconstruction and Heretic/Hexen parts/sections maybe appear in the future? Anyway, need some help/information - how correctly add demos for Heretic/Hexen in DSDA, when this opportunity appears, of course.

Opulent
Waiting response and opinion from JCD. I think, PWADs demos itself maybe interesting for someone, who don't want to any competition, don't want beat the other times, etc., maybe someone wants one thing - just play the game and record this. For me, especially interesting first attempts demos, which, in my opinion, can only be record once in a life. Interesting together with their stupid, not logic, funny moments, because player never seen this map before and don't know - what awaits him ahead :)

Heretic-N: my attempts for Pacifist:
E4M3 - 3:43
E4M6 - 1:51
Reason - empty table positions. I watched h4b6-120, where QWERTY 15 years ago easy run this map with nice keyboard turning, but now I'm know, easy - only watching.
 

h4p3&6.zip

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