Heretic demos (non-demopack and NM)

Sorry for the late answer,

 

Add other categories is not a bad idea, I have already added NMS in heretic-N ( http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/nmmax.php )

 

I can create other sections, even sections for Pwads, but they must be vanilla compatible ...

I just need some time to update the database and fix the upload page ^^ (Time and Date is broken, and I have to add PVS in the players list)

 

If you want to add a Pwad, tell me here

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, PVS said:

kraflab
It's good that other database's, other people want support Heretic/Hexen demo recording, I'm glad to know about it. Now I looked at the DSDA page hoping to find some new Heretic demos for me, but don't find. In this time this database does not contain Heretic/Hexen demos, right? Also, if I understand correctly, at this time DSDA under reconstruction and Heretic/Hexen parts/sections maybe appear in the future? Anyway, need some help/information - how correctly add demos for Heretic/Hexen in DSDA, when this opportunity appears, of course.

Yes, the existing dsda does not accept heretic/hexen demos.  We're working on a new iteration.  Actually it's pretty much done, but we want to expand functionality and so it's taking time to process/convert all the existing demos.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
On 30 марта 2017 г. at 10:48 AM, JCD said:

If you want to add a Pwad, tell me here

I propose to add this PWAD categories:
1. Heretic first attempts (HFA) or PWAD first attempts. (now I use HFA abbreviation only for reasons to have differences from similar Doom FDA category, but it does not really matter, of course). Rules: Record demo on the map that never seen before, during recording allowed death and reborn, after death continue to play from scratch, allowed uncompleted attempts and any skill levels.
2. Heretic PWAD Max (HPM). Rules similar to the usual Max rules: map must be finished, 100% kills and secrets, death not allowed.
3. Heretic PWAD Speed (HPS). Actually more free category than Max, may be really speed (may be not), map must be finished, death not allowed.
4. Also, I think, we can add category: Heretic PWAD Movie, why not? For PWADs, that contain more than one map, especially, some wads can be recorded only in this mode, because second/third/etc maps in wad not designed for playing it from scratch. Heretic PWAD Movie would be very interesting demo records, in my opinion.

About skill level for PWAD Max and Speed categories: many custom Heretic maps contain only one skill level itself, so set it in the rules becomes unimportant, but I think, we can set one skill level for such demos: Smite-Meister (skill-4), this should be enough. Some PWADs contain crazy skill level, there on skill-5 very hard to stay alive :) For first attempts category may be allowed any skill levels, at the player's choice, this is more maps workaround/review category itself.

PWAD demos format - vanilla compatible, of course. For first attempts demos with player deaths - anyway need vvHeretic4 or Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 for record/playback. Some old PWADs, created in ~2000-2002 years and designed for wHeretic port, which allowed some basic limit removing level in those days. Today this wads may normal working with Heretic-Plus, which add only some technical extensions for Heretic engine, not touching vanilla gameplay itself. I'm tested Heretic-Plus - working normal. For example, if need record demo for PWAD which required basic limit removing, need big demo size and player deaths in demo (for first attempt) - possible use combination vvHeretic4 + Heretic-Plus for record/playback, this working normal. If you not agree with use Heretic-Plus (by Andrey Budko) for basic limit removing - say me, what would I know, because I have recorded some demos for PWADs with limit removing.

Let me know, when you can add PWAD categories in your Heretic-N upload page, step by step I'll start upload my current demo records in Incoming.

Share this post


Link to post

How do you watch Heretic demos? DOSBOX + Vanilla Heretic isn't an option for me. I downloaded Chocolate Heretic but the demos I've tried go out of sync with it.

Edited by rdwpa

Posted (edited)

Share this post


Link to post

Can you give a link or attach a problem demo files, where Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 not correct playback? I don't see any problems for me, only Net/Coop demos Chocolate Heretic can't playback (a few months ago could not, today I did not test Net demos).

For all other variants for playback vanilla Heretic demos - yes, need DosBox today or old PC.

Share this post


Link to post

Wtb PrHeretic+

 

Fix all of our problems <:s

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Fonze said:

Wtb PrHeretic+

I think jcd is working on exactly that.

Share this post


Link to post

That is great, some TAS Heretic would be good

Share this post


Link to post

Fonze
PrHeretic+ what do you mean, are you serious? On the previous page JCD talked about their version of the game-exe, but it seems they work under DOS and may have name CHeretic (I guess), like their CHexen.

JCD
Check this demo: http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/Demos/Max/h2m1-145.zip
I see KILLS 44/45 on the finish, visually, I see how one gargoyle very fast runaway from Vincent. Your version have Kills counter, that you can see from this demo, maybe it's not max?
On this page: http://82.66.133.154:85/Heretic-N/bpspeed.php h1b4-048 by QWERTY recorded in 2002, not in 2009.

Guys, maybe somebody can try Pacifist on E4M9? I tried many times, but without success, no idea how to break through two zones. I think, it is quite possible, but need more skilled Heretic-guy, than me :)
 

Share this post


Link to post

kraflab
Thanks for the info, It's only strange - why JCD did not tell about it himself, maybe there are some reasons? It's very funny, but now I'm using very old PC and windows systems, that this version does not work for me, this is just my problem, of course. One thing is good - now I know, that this port is called Smart Heretic and working on it - JCD.

veovisRC
In h1sp-622 you showed very high speed, I'm wondering - how much time did you work on this demo? Speed It's certainly good, but most of all I liked the moment on E1M7, where for take the blue key - you use the golems/warriors heads, he he. Not many demos contain such funny moments, I always like them.

I have an offer for you. You use Chocolate Heretic, maybe we can try to record the real network Deathmatch in original demo format? I'm wondering exactly this - try Heretic DM demo record in original format, it does not matter - who has what skills and wins :) Some time ago I did some tests and see - that Chocolate Heretic can record net demos with players deaths (what is needed for DM), but can't playback their. For playback such demos possible to use vvHeretic4 and, if I understand correctly - Smart Heretic by JCD.
Let me know if you are interested in this idea, if needed I can help with any Chocolate Heretic settings for network games, there is not difficult at all.
 

Share this post


Link to post

@PVS, it took a few months of on-and-off practice, plus one month of very focused practice (i was trying for the demo every day after work for at least 1-2 hours). the demo isn't perfect, but i think it's very good. and yeah, i like that strategy for E1M7 too. for me, i think it's a lot more consistent than the straferun strategy (although, it's also not perfect, since it requires a bit of luck for the golems to line up correctly)

 

i might be interested in trying some DM demos! my only experience with heretic DM was playing it a few times on sourceports back in around 2004. it was a lot of fun, but i didnt get too many opportunities to play. do you have steam or discord? that would probably be the easiest way to get in contact with me to play. my steam url is here and my discord tag is veovis#6017

Edited by veovisRC

Posted (edited)

Share this post


Link to post

Of course, to take the E1M7 blue key in this way - there must be luck. You can see the same luck in h1s7-104, where in same manner golem head was under QWERTY foot in 2002 :) You did a good work in h1sp-622 and h3sp-707, I know that this is not easy.

About Heretic DM I send you PM, I hope you find him, after Doomworld update need to learn use it again...
 

Edited by PVS

Posted (edited)

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, veovisRC said:

i might be interested in trying some DM demos! my only experience with heretic DM was playing it a few times on sourceports back in around 2004. it was a lot of fun, but i didnt get too many opportunities to play. do you have steam or discord? that would probably be the easiest way to get in contact with me to play. my steam url is here and my discord tag is veovis#6017

I would also totally be down for some Heretic DM; honestly I don't even care if we record it ^^

Share this post


Link to post

We were able to record it down: real network HereticDM in original format. It's more like a first test records (for me), but it's cool demos with some funny moments! As the main result: now I checked in practice - record net HereticDM demos on Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 is possible, this demos can normally be played on vvHeretic4.

Thanks Fonze and MadDog for the good company and fun times!
 

HereticDM.zip

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

I've been working on getting heretic-n merged into my new dsda prototype, and all the demos are on there as of today, so I figured I would share a link here.  Keep in mind that it is all a work in progress, there may be bugs, it may go down at times, etc.  I haven't spent much time on the visuals yet, so that's mostly just in a functional state.

 

https://dsdarchive.com/wads/heretic

 

This also includes a variety of demos I found elsewhere, including the original sda database and some demos stored on the idgames archive.  There are also some demos for a few pwads, as seen here: https://dsdarchive.com/wads

 

I still have a lot of stray demos to work through, and I'd like to give a thanks to veovis and keyboard_doomer for helping me with some of them already.  As of yet, no one has been able to play back two of Vincent Catalaa's wheretic runs, because they desync, so I have those under the "Other" header until a proper time can be determined.  If anyone knows of other locations where demos might be hidden, or if anyone has demos of their own for pwads, feel free to point me in their direction.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

Nice to see work getting Heretic into the DSDA :)

 

For what is worth, some of the demos listed as Anonymous are actually from the htic-nm from Branimir H. Beric and Jeff Easthope (the text file shows which is from who).

Share this post


Link to post

Branimir asked (I think andy) to be made anonymous, that's why I marked them this way.

 

 

Edit: Added a pack of 31 demos by Andrey Budko (aka entryway) for jheretic/doomsday, which are nm-speed with jumping :^) That makes it 720 demos so far, which makes heretic 8th by demo count on dsda (above alien vendetta).  Thanks to keyboard_doomer for verifying these demos for me.

Edited by kraflab

Posted (edited)

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/30/2017 at 9:45 PM, kraflab said:

  As of yet, no one has been able to play back two of Vincent Catalaa's wheretic runs, because they desync, so I have those under the "Other" header until a proper time can be determined.  If anyone knows of other locations where demos might be hidden, or if anyone has demos of their own for pwads, feel free to point me in their direction.

 

I did not see an "other" category on the web site.  If you will name or post the "offending" demos maybe some one here can help with info.  There are a lot of helpful people here.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm glad to see that Heretic now has one more database! Thanks kraflab and all the people who helped you with the demo records. At the moment, I noticed a couple of points on this new database, maybe this will be interesting information:

1. On the example of these demos: E1M1 - NM Speed - (Anonymous) Heretic v1.3+vv 1:11 vs (Anonymous) Heretic v1.3 1:47.
In fact - these are the same records, you can compare them physically and see that they differ only by one bit. In my opinion, someone modified this bit so that these demos could play vvHeretic4, because vvHeretic4 himself can not playback vanilla Heretic 1.3 -nomonsters and -respawn demos. I do not approve of this and believe that it is impossible to modify someone's author's records for any personal reasons. Now it turns out that in DSDA all these demos (from htic-nm.zip) are duplicated, but correct demos time shown exactly in demos, marked as 'vv' records. I do not know why in NMHTIC.TXT the demos time was not signed correctly, maybe in 1996 the guys did not have a correct lmp program.
In my opinion, in the database need to leave only the original demos from htic-nm.zip without a modified bit (they can normally playback on vanilla Heretic 1.3) and remove all duplicates.

2. I think, in DSDA missed a few demos from this page:
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/lmps/heretic/1.3/

Here are 11 demos, this is information about them, with the correct time and state:
hs5e1m1 - 5:32
hs5e1m2 - 8:25
hte5m8f - 5:42 (missed, simultaneously SM Speed & SM Max)
htnme1m5 - 5:28 (missed, NoMo 100S)
htuve1m1 - 5:09 (missed, SM Max)
htuve1m2 - 9:50 (missed, not SM Max, but may be SM Speed)
htuve1m3 - 10:06 (missed, not SM Max, but may be SM Speed)
htuve1m4 - 7:37 (missed, not SM Max, but may be SM Speed)
htuve1m6 - 16:30
htuve2m1 - 5:14 (missed, SM Max)
htyde1m5 - 2:09

3. Episodes demos: h1sp-951, h2sp-844, h3sp1104 by Vincent Catalaa and recorded on wHeretic - I'm many times normally playback on wHeretic v0.5a Build 9 (whtc05a9.zip), I don't see any problem and desync. I'm wondering who has problems with these demos and what exactly are the problems? Latest wHeretic versions have their own demo format, not compatible with Heretic 1.3, need playback these demos only on this wHeretic version.
 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, PVS said:

1. On the example of these demos: E1M1 - NM Speed - (Anonymous) Heretic v1.3+vv 1:11 vs (Anonymous) Heretic v1.3 1:47...

2. I think, in DSDA missed a few demos from this page:
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/lmps/heretic/1.3/

Here are 11 demos, this is information about them, with the correct time and state:
hs5e1m1 - 5:32
hs5e1m2 - 8:25
hte5m8f - 5:42 (missed, simultaneously SM Speed & SM Max)
htnme1m5 - 5:28 (missed, NoMo 100S)
htuve1m1 - 5:09 (missed, SM Max)
htuve1m2 - 9:50 (missed, not SM Max, but may be SM Speed)
htuve1m3 - 10:06 (missed, not SM Max, but may be SM Speed)
htuve1m4 - 7:37 (missed, not SM Max, but may be SM Speed)
htuve1m6 - 16:30
htuve2m1 - 5:14 (missed, SM Max)
htyde1m5 - 2:09

3. Episodes demos: h1sp-951, h2sp-844, h3sp1104 by Vincent Catalaa and recorded on wHeretic - I'm many times normally playback on wHeretic v0.5a Build 9 (whtc05a9.zip), I don't see any problem and desync. I'm wondering who has problems with these demos and what exactly are the problems? Latest wHeretic versions have their own demo format, not compatible with Heretic 1.3, need playback these demos only on this wHeretic version.
 

Thanks for the information.

The duplicate demos with the wrong time are quite odd, I hadn't noticed that.  I'll get them removed.

 

For number 2: I hadn't uploaded these because I'm not clear on all the information.  A lot of them didn't have times in the text file, so thank you for getting that for me.  But the categories are unclear as well.  hte5m8f for instance says "skill: 4" and "options: -fast" in the text file, which doesn't make any sense to me.  I will go with what you have written though, thank you for the information!

 

For number 3: Keyboard_doomer managed to get wheretic running and the episode 2 and episode 3 runs desynced for him.  I need the map 8 times for these demos in order to properly incorporate them.  If you can run them fine and determine the time of map 8 (estimating using a timer if necessary) I would appreciate it.  Note that I have no doubt of the legitimacy of the demos, just that I don't know what the total time is, including map 8 (which is the dsda standard).

Edited by kraflab

Posted (edited)

Share this post


Link to post

OK, the duplicate demos should all be clear now, and I uploaded those idgames ones.  I also put up two crypts.wad demos I found.

 

Current things I need help with:

https://doomworld.com/3ddownloads/sda/d-h/hes5.zip

> This has a demo hes5m8.lmp without a time.

 

https://doomworld.com/3ddownloads/sda/d-h/hkcptrik.zip

> This has a demo of e1m1 and e1m7 without times.

 

https://doomworld.com/3ddownloads/sda/d-h/

> This directory has 7 nm movies by vile, for zdoom, that I need map 8 times for in order to add them to the database.  This requires either setting up a memory hacking software to read the tics from memory, or to time things manually.  The files are hep1sk5, hep1sk5new, hep2sk5, hep3sk5, hep3sk5new, hep4sk5, hep5sk5.

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, kraflab said:

hte5m8f for instance says "skill: 4" and "options: -fast" in the text file, which doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not exactly sure what he means under -fast, because Heretic not have this option. I think he just did not know about it, because Is a Doom player :) On BP (skill-5) monsters move faster automatically in Heretic, it comes from the game engine, but only on BP, not SM and below skills.

Vincent Catalaa wHeretic movies:
h1sp-951: E1M8 ~1:04, summary time ~10:55
e2sp-844: E2M8 ~1:37, summary time ~10:21
h3sp1104: E3M8 ~1:51, summary time ~12:55

Vincent Catalaa & Michael Lastovica coop 2005 (hkcptrik.zip)
h1c1trik: 0:14 (SM NoMo, 2P)
h1c7trik: 0:42 (SM speed, 2P)

Interesting situation with E5M8 map in Heretic: where any speed demo it's automatically a Max demo. In Heretic-N these demos are duplicated in two record tables for E5M8 map, what are the rules in this situation in DSDA database?

I can help with any questions about Heretic demo records, but only in vanilla + basic limit-removing format. I'm not very interesting any ZDoom, Legacy, etc. demos, because always need to have a specific port version for playback, it's bad.
 

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you PVS, this has been very helpful!

 

I updated Vincent's episode runs so that they have the full time and added the coop runs.

I removed the duplicate demos for e5m8 and moved all demos to be listed as max demos, which is the standard for dsda (max supersedes speed).  If you notice any other errors or oddities, let me know and I will get them sorted out.

Share this post


Link to post


Here are Viles demo times:

zdoom -timedemo hep1sk5  Vile, cab 52. Ep 1, Skill 5, 12:58
zdoom -timedemo hep1sk5n  Vile, cab 52. Ep 1, Skill 5, 7:58
zdoom -timedemo hep2sk5  Vile, cab 52. Ep 2, Skill 5, 6:33
zdoom -timedemo hep3sk5n  Vile, cab 52. Ep 2, Skill 5, 8:01
zdoom -timedemo hep3sk5  Vile, cab 50.  < I don't have zdoom cab 50
zdoom -timedemo hep4sk5  Vile, cab 52. Ep 4, Skill 5, 11:14
zdoom -timedemo hep5sk5  Vile, cab 52. Ep 5, Skill 5, 12:30

 

All of the above run like this example With Zdoom cab 52:
zdoom -iwad heretic.wad -width 800 -height 600 -fullscr -nomusic -playdemo hep1sk5

================================

I will try to run the first two and check them for times

Share this post


Link to post

hes5m8.lmp   3:01-3:04 @playdemo speed timed by hand, 

@timedemo speed:  6368 game tics in 3213 real tics, 91.80 Sec

====

 

In real time on my system, timed by hand I get:

h1c1trik.lmp  34 sec

h1c7trik.lmp  1:54

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now