a wad

[tycp_08]

http://www.fileshack.us/v/4433372/6_5_4_3_2_1_The_City.zip.html

this time I promise not to freak out.
this is a WIP. any suggestions would be appreciated.
its for map16 and doom2
here's some screenshots:

[Th0r]

post screenshots/info plz

[Dr. Zin]

Link is broken.

[Maes]

Dr. Zin said:

Link is broken.

Basically, the whole fileshack.us domain seems to be down at the moment. Try another file sharing service like e.g. http://www.sharebigfile.com/

[tycp_08]

i got it fixed

[Maes]

Okey dokey, let's try to keep this strictly technical.

So, this is basically (for now) a square map surrounded by nukage, and three buildings on one side of the square. Two of them contain a few weapons and backpacks, some architecture like stairs or lifting crates and the third one is empty (for now).

The upper/lower textures on the windows and doors need alignment.

There are still no monsters or an exit switch.

A personal dislike, applying to your previous WAD too: you use too many backpacks. Those are useful maybe 1 or 2 per level to increase your ammo capacity. They give you a tiny amount of each type ammo, and they are reminiscent of jokewads which pack them by the 1000s. If you want to give the player serious ammo, use boxes and crates and cells.

So here's where it all boils down for me: it's a TOO PLAIN and TOO EARLY early WIP to ask for criticism/reviews. No monsters, no exit, obviously unfinished, and there doesn't seem to be any theme to it yet. Work on it some more then update the file, or post a description of what it's supposed to be/what you're planning to do.

[tycp_08]

k, now it has monsters and health.

http://www.fileshack.us/v/4433372/6_5_4_3_2_1_The_City.zip.html

[Maes]

I don't have the time to download and test it now, but just another observation: the first version mustn't have taken more than 30 minutes to make provided you know the basics of rooms, sectors etc. and for an average mapper making a level of that size and with what would be considered "average" detail and a reasonable amount of final polishing (texture alignment, item placement etc.) would take at least 6-10 hours, unless you're a specialized speedmapper.

So I don't think it will be *very* different 10 minutes after I posted my first comment. When I say "work on it" I imagine you'd work like minimum 3-4 hours before posting something again.

At least *I* just can't express any meaningful opinion on a plain square room with 3 buildings, sorry.

[tycp_08]

here's another update

http://www.fileshack.us/v/4433372/6_5_4_3_2_1_The_City.zip.html

again, any suggestions/advice will be welcomed.

[DJShrimpy]

Well its slightly better then your first one.

But still...

[tycp_08]

u need to get the current one. the one you have is 5_4_3_2_1.
u need 6_5_4_3_2_1.

[DJShrimpy]

No, I'm not downloading an entire new Wad every 10 minutes. Next time make sure the Wad is bug free. Jesus, we're still on page 1 and you've already updated it like 3 times.

[Catoptromancy]

Make something that is finished and tested first, People really cant comment on something only half done. With no monsters it is Impossible to judge game play.

[Th0r]

DJShrimpy said:

Well its slightly better then your first one.

But still...

Nice way to copy people from the st forums

[lupinx-Kassman]

Its not a bad start, but you still need much improvement. Listen to our suggestions and don't give up.

[DJShrimpy]

Th0r said:

Nice way to copy people from the st forums

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :P

[Udderdude]

Well, it's certianly better than your first map. It has something resembling actual gameplay. If you keep working at it, you could make something decent.

[Maes]

OK, so now it has a road, 2 more buildings and some paths connecting the road to those buildings.

What is STILL wrong:

• Texture misalignments on doors/windows.
  
• No exit
  
• 90% of the map is still empty.
  

On a positive note, now it started looking kind of like a residential block with 5 houses, there are actually monsters and even traps in some of the buildings, there is enough ammo to finish the level, but the detail is really sub-par for something you have updated what, 3 times so far? To make houses look like houses you need to add at least something that would look like a couch, a wall painting, a table etc. or work on internal detail (separate houses into rooms, furnish them, etc.)

However, a big square room containing only some grid aligned roads and boxes/bunkers is not particularly appealing, even if you fill it with up with monsters, ammo and more boxes. Try making thinner road lines (set grid size to something finer like 8*8) and to curve the road at some point. Real roads usually sink between sidewalks, which in turn sink into "wild landscape", they are not like someone just laid them on top of the ground.

Add some non-geometrical variety like curved/bent roads, ground openings, ponds, etc., and exterior decoration like trees, lamposts etc and most importantly, NEVER release a level that's just several acres of empty land.

If you really want to make a city-themed wad, take inspiration from this classic wad from 1994 Dead base. Mind ye, it is too plain for modern standards, but it has variety and a non-linear layout, and is simple enough to be studied from a new mapper. If you feel like you can handle more than that, then there's Europe, which also has a fairly detailed city section, with roads, enterable buildings, alleys, sidewalks and even a central square and a stadium.

Also, check what other people who post WIP post as screenshots or release as demos, and try to size up the job accordingly before your next release.

[fraggle]

DJShrimpy said:

Well its slightly better then your first one.

But still...

[LexiMax]

fraggle said:

teh funneh

OK this made me giggle.

[Torn]

lol at fraggle :P

[Dutch Doomer]

Well thats an big fat warning to DJShrimpy :)

[Antidote]

The link(s) hasn't been working for me... but my major gripe is in your screens you have a really out-dated version of ZDoom (from 1999). You should really start living in the world of today and upgrade to the newest version. Get it here.

[tycp_08]

lol, nice one, fraggle!

k, this is the final version.
http://www.fileshack.us/v/9631472/8_7_6_5_4_3_2_1_The_City.zip.html

any suggestions would be accepted.

[Maes]

OK, so now there's like 1000 trees, 4-5 more buildings, and EVEN a fight for a key, which is pointless being there no exit switch (seriously, what's up with that?)

Still major texture misalignments on doors and windows lower and upper textures, half of the level is now a "forest" and it even has a bridge over nukage.

Checking it with an editor, it's full of missing textures, has a couple of unclosed sectors and some visible bleeding/HOM at some points. Also, the linedefs making up the houses' "walls" are all fucked up: many have an unnecessary back side, front sides point the wrong direction, many walls are made with up to 4 different layers of sidedefs...

IMHO, this isn't something you'd want to upload at idgames/ in its present form unless you want to hear some pretty unflattering comments and see the number "1994" repeated very often. Your choice, though.

With some serious effort you actually CAN cram a plot and a nice non-linearity even on such a small, open level e.g. use height differences, towers, teleporters etc. etc. add anything that will make this worthwhile playing.

My advice? Open up a WAD you like playing, and ask yourself "What does this WAD have that mine doesn't?"

The ones I posted above are a good start, especially DEADBASE.WAD if you're into city style levels.

[Antidote]

tycp_08 said:

lol, nice one, fraggle!

k, this is the final version.
http://www.fileshack.us/v/9631472/8_7_6_5_4_3_2_1_The_City.zip.html

any suggestions would be accepted.

How can be it be "final" if there isn't an exit switch? I like the additions, but it still needs more work.

[SyntherAugustus]

So that's what the vb interface looks like.

Heh tycp, I suggest you update your zdoom.

[tycp_08]

this is the (hopefully) final update. now there is a exit.

http://www.fileshack.us/v/7701895/City.wad.html

save it to your doom folder.

[Antidote]

So now that you have a working map, with a start and a finish, you need to start working on the following things: gameplay, architecture/detail (optional, but makes people like your map better), and texture alignments.

[Vegeta]

I tested it, I have to admit it's better than what I expected, and I see potential in you. Yet at the moment needs some work. Here are my suggestions.

-Before adding more things, fix all the existing bugs, there are many misaligned textures in door, there's a slime trail, it seems that there are unclosed sectors here and there. To align the upper and lower textures at the same time put "lower unpegged" and "upper unpegged". I suggest to use a diferent texture for the step in the doors (the step textures usualy look good, so do the startan textures). A bug free map allways looks solid, no matter how simple it is. If you need help fixing them feel free to ask.
-The shotgun is useless here, I suggest to add some imps and lesser zombies here and there.
-I'd add an extra building in the other side of the bridge, some pillars blocking the path in the middle of it (the bridge), and I'd also replace the exit switch with a switch that lower these pillars. Then I'd add the exit in the building placed in the other side of the map. Make it look diferent, more imposing than the other ones.
-Replace some of the trees with "brown stub" and "big tree".
-The slimefall in the lateral slime pit looks kinda out of place.
-Add more variation in the enemies. A few Cacos in the other side of the map that cross the pit flying. Revenants hidden underearth (put them in 64x64 or so sectors with negative floor height, no lower texture and "invisible in the automap" flag), at the other side of the pit so when the player is geting near to close the bridge, a line raise the lifts where the Revenants are so they can move. Or perhaps Mancubus or Arachnotrons.
-An Archvile in the final building.
-A few monsters (zombies or imp) outside the buildings where the player start.
-Some dead bodies, blood, little guts allways add a bit atmoshpere.
-A flaming barrel or two spreaded in the map.
-Lamps made by sectors and pillars in the outside area.
-A building with a door that can't be opened from the outside (yet from inside), and a teleport in other building to enter it.
-A building with crates inside.
-Perhaps two or three crates outside.

Hope some of this helps.