Can i use DEICE installator for free with my stuff?

[Bloodshedder]

Note my wording. id Software logo. Trademark. The other resources are not trademarked. Learn what a trademark is.

[fraggle]

Vegeta said:

The Lost Episodes of DOOM was sold, and used id fonts for the menu.

Are you saying that the all the wads with sprites based in DOOM/2 sprites are ilegal?

In any case, c.imp could you talk a bit more about your wad?

No, only that you cannot use the id logo (trademark) on your own material without the permission of id.

[aleksej]

Vegeta said:

In any case, c.imp could you talk a bit more about your wad?

Well, this is my concept:
I want make my own full nine-level episode for doom. It is replace 4th episode in Ultimate DOOM. In all doom1 episodes mixed style. I wish create something nearly like DeathKings of the Dark Citadel add-on for Hexen. Something that looks like if ID released add-on. I mean look-familiar package/installation process and etc. Then for much complete look it must replace all resources wich related for any separate episode in doom code, but never crossed to other internal episodes.
I want replace only ep4 stuff (among levels)
SKY4 texture
"Their Flesh Comsumed" title string
Interpic for ep4 (grey distorted skull faces)
Endpic for ep4 (doom guy with Daicy head on it hand)
Interpic level name titles (with grey letters)
And here one problem for me.
With this rules i must change hardcoded to exe texts related for ep4 - automap level names and endepisode text (before endpic). But how i can do this without deh support and .exe modification?
Now i'm searching for someone who still can code for doom in DOS.
My idea is a creation of tiny TSR tool that run before doom and can replace these strings directly in memory without .exe touching. Like behavior of fbmoudis or DMS (doom mouse spinner) but for internal text strings. Or even full deh support in same way.
Then add to this TSR util function like WAD-launcher in DKotDC. And for this some installer prog is required for me.
Now my vision for this in all steps.
1. Have solf extracting distributive
2. Installer searches for doom.exe/promt you typing right path for it.
3. Install destination for add-on may be any, not only doom directory (like on DKotDC)
4. In depence of doom.exe path finally installer create a file like location.str in DKotDC that contains path to doom directory. That file is located in derictory where pwad is installed.
5. There also tiny launch program, that look for doom path string in these location.str-like file and launch doom within these doom directory with full path for pwad add-on added. And then patches directly in memory all equired texts strings related for my episode.
These strings it may take in example from standart for most sourceports DEHACKED.LMP resource, wich has been put in pwad file.

I think this is most interesting and "official-feel" way. But i'm not a programmer :(
This is most important thing for me now.
Without this stimulus creation of pwad itself is not much interesting for me.
It is my first creation for doom at all. But i old doom fan (since '93) i keep authentic doom feel through these years and i know how it must look for real vanila doom feel in theory :)
Now i'm start my practics and i need help from doom coders.
Any ideas?

p.s. Even if my own levels will be such a crap - it does not matter. Concept for official-like add-ons remains for much professional vanilla doom mappers (Paul Corfiatis and Jan Van Der Veken is my favorite mappers).

[Chain Mail]

fraggle said:

No, only that you cannot use the id logo (trademark) on your own
material without the permission of id.

It's not really your own material, according to them.

If the EULA doesn't specify that a trademarked "ID image" cannot be used, then they aren't necessarily prohibiting the inclusion of the DOOM logo or the id logo (which are images in the games, regarddless of whether they are trademarked) in a wad that respects the EULA. So you already have permission if you respect the EULA (something many wads don't do, though).

Fully complying with the EULA produces a wad that is basically owned by id but where the license is given to the author to produce it and distribute it under the limited circumstances. They let you do something "illegal" as long as you comply with certain demands.

[fraggle]

Chain Mail said:

It's not really your own material, according to them.

If the EULA doesn't specify that a trademarked "ID image" cannot be used, then they aren't necessarily prohibiting the inclusion of the DOOM logo or the id logo

"ID reserves all rights not granted in this Agreement". They explicitly state that rights not granted are prohibited, and that no rights are granted to their trademarks. Furthermore, trademark and copyright law are both "default deny": it is not the case that you are allowed to use something if nobody has told you otherwise: you cannot use trademarks or copyrighted material unless you are explicitly granted a license by the owner.

Fully complying with the EULA produces a wad that is basically owned by id but where the license is given to the author to produce it and distribute it under the limited circumstances. They let you do something "illegal" as long as you comply with certain demands.

No, original material is owned by the copyright owner. The EULA grants you a limited license to make derivative works of the sprites/graphics/etc. in the IWAD.

But I don't want to get bogged down in legal babbling. My point is this: you shouldn't go plastering the 'id' logo on the titlescreen of your mod. It isn't made by or endorsed by them, so it's misleading to do so. They explicitly state in the license that they don't want people using their trademarks. You should respect id by complying with their wishes and not pretending your mod is anything to do with them.

[Chain Mail]

fraggle said:
My point is this: you shouldn't go plastering the 'id' logo on the titlescreen of your mod.

Well, I'm plastering them there, and c.imp coincidentially seems also to have found a reason to do something similar.

It isn't made by or endorsed by them, so it's misleading to do so.

The logo and company mark are merely being left there on the screen, as opposed to being removed completely. The game is still theirs, and it is being fully loaded with the add-on every time you play it. The wad is just an add-on, and you're still playing DOOM. I prefer to leave their marks in view even if the title screen is throughly changed. At least it makes sense for my add-on that meticulously accepts their EULA. Those that don't might want to reconsider such uses. Obviously the credit screen and documentation explicit who made what (original game by id, new levels by John Doe, etc), who to contact if something is wrong (id is 100% not responsible, etc), so it's not misleading at all.

[Vegeta]

C.Imp if you're lucky and find a coder, I'd also suggest to modify the episode menu so your episode is the only displayed.

I think you may find useful to map it for Zdoom, keep everything vanilla like, but set the end pic and victory messages in the levels you desire. Also modify the level names (both automap an intermision) without dehacked, you could even set diferent sky textures for the maps.

These kind of things are quite easy to implement.

[printz]

Why don't you actually want to simulate the release of another 'final' Doom? Build a main IWAD by using WinDEU/DETH/DeePSea and modify the executable by rewriting its texts. I AM NOT SURE IF RELEASING AN "INTERNAL WAD" MATERIAL IS PERMITTED.

[Stilgar]

printz said:

I AM NOT SURE IF RELEASING AN "INTERNAL WAD" MATERIAL IS PERMITTED.

It is not. The only way you can safely make a stand-alone that doesn't require one of the commercial IWADs is if you make it entirely out of material that you have the rights to use (i.e. your own original creations). Freedoom would be the prime example.

[aleksej]

Vegeta
Only new episode visible is not important thing which i prefer. Anyway thanks for your suggestion.
About zdoom... heh, a few years ago i love that port (among legacy) and believed in it. Now i just hate any sourceports. I can't understand in what direction they develop. Doomsday, Zdoom, GZdoom, Legacy, Risen3D, Vavoom - for me this is not doom anymore.
Now i suffer only Chocolate (and less prboom(+) but too).
For me doom is pure authentic DOS executable.
And all my not serious doom creativity related only for vanilla.

printz
Whole IWAD? Maybe sometime later. On pension?

[printz]

Stilgar said:

It is not. The only way you can safely make a stand-alone that doesn't require one of the commercial IWADs is if you make it entirely out of material that you have the rights to use (i.e. your own original creations). Freedoom would be the prime example.

I only tried to imitate the capitalized legal paragraphs and my message was that I'm not sure whether it's legal to upload any IWAD, regardless of content.