More sound playback formats

[Steeveeo]

(not sure if this has been asked before)

Is there any way to encode XWE to be more compatible with sound playback formats? Right now it seems it only supports wave and midi.

It would be nice if it could playback OGG (vorbis), possibly MP3, and some others that some user might wanna post here (hint).

[Maes]

There are far too many formats to be supported, and last time I checked XWE was not part of the WinAmp project :-)

The two "true" doom formats are actually .MUS and .WAV (and plain MIDI from v1.9), all the others are source port additions.

OK, playing an MP3 or an OGG is trivial with an external library, and maybe music modules with the fmod.dll, if I'm not wrong...but does XWE really need such features? Then you'd complain about the lack of controls or whatnot :-p

[Steeveeo]

the thing is, what if your looking thru a gigantic megawad with 32 maps and a bunch of cryptic filenames for music for that one song and/or sound you like but its coded in vorbis (ogg) so you cannot tell which one it is?

Im saying it would be an extremely useful tool to have in XWE.

So yes, I am basically saying XWE does need these features!


@Controls comment: What lack of controls? And who's complaining? Im fine with XWE right now, I am just making a suggestion to make it even better! ;)

[Glassyman]

Why not? I think it is a good idea.

[Steeveeo]

Ive noticed that Maes likes to go around these forums and shoot down everyones ideas. Dunno why he likes to do it, but he does. Maybe he's tryin to prove somtm?

[Maes]

Let's say I'm going around debunking lost propositions and ideas based on wrong assumptions. If I target anyone, be certain that he has done (or thinks about doing) something wrong that will somehow waste his and others time without ending in a positive contribution for the Doom community in general.

Without any personal reasons, I will cite mac53's sprites project as a prime example. I won't bother going into the details but he essentially didn't know what he was doing, and for some time he deluded himself and others that his recolored sprites were actually "hi-res" (OpenGL filtering, anyone?). However even he understood that this thing was going nowhere and is now changing route.

Another reason for "going around" and doing what I do, is that Doomworld seems to suffer from a sort of goldfish memory, regarding projects, and many posts and ideas are rehashes of older ones, plus a lot of threads could use some technical expertise *cough cough* electronic engineer *cough cough* once in a while ;-)

Regarding you, Steeveeo...I never said it was a bad idea adding support for more sound format in XWE (the fmod.dll is enough for .mod and some exotic tracker support), only that XWE is not Winamp and if more sound support is added then people will still not be content and are going to ask for playback controls "so they can be absolutely certain what those sound files sound like without listening to a 10 minute song". Riiiight? :-D

[Steeveeo]

you sure voted NO pretty fast for someone who thinks its not a bad idea...

also, why couldnt you just add the comment that "playback controls would be nice too" instead of ranting about what I said wasnt true, when it clearly was (See Doom Patcher, nice program, but you immediately went for the bad of it instead of offering constructive critisizm, in fact, if you look at mewse's post there I bet you could see that he thinks the same on some level...)

[Maes]

I kinda feel like Maddox when posting this stuff...OK, so basically mewse said:

considering "it is a quite convenient tool for identifying your IWADs actual version," and that the official patches DON'T feature this, i don't see why maes is trying to tear down his work.

Actually, the official patches only work with one specific version, and if you don't have it they don't complete the installation and don't alter the .exe or the iwad, so they actually HAVE version detection, only that they don't bother telling you which one, it's enough that they find/don't find the one they are intended to work with. Anyway, comparing this patcher to the id ones is like comparing oranges to apples: none can completely substitute the other for a variety of reasons, and each one has its "niche" of intended use.

And I voted "NO" for the sound because as I said, XWE is not Winamp, and wave and midi (actually, mus and midi) are the "standard" doom sound and music formats. The fact that it's easy to embed .mod support is purely coincidental, but it should be a priority for XWE, seeing how there are more basic functions that need some fixing in an otherwise great tool.

Edit: someone else voted "no" within the last 20 minutes, wtf? :-p

[Steeveeo]

who the hell cares if XWE is or isnt WinAmp, there is WAAAYY more than just Winamp that can play MP3s (WME used to but I heard a rumor that MS sent out a friggin patch that stopped you from playing them).

So the fact remains, XWE is not WinAmp, who the hell cares?! Its the compatability for mp3s, oggs, and the like that matters, not what project its from!

(and I have a nagging suspicion that you just had some spare time so you registered another account just to vote no; but hell, that may be just because I play too many strategy games and suspect everyone and everything...)

[Maes]

LOL, pupsocketry is the last thing I would do, and besides I think DW has IP control, so it's not even possible. However it seems that 2 out of the 3 "NO" votes came after our debate, whatever that means :-)

Again, the main reason for voting "NO" is that XWE still needs fixes in basic things like image parsing/detection/loading, file sharing etc. that multiple sound formats is really the cherry on the cake. The easiest thing to do (which wouldn't halt development) would be adding support for DETECTING a sound format, and delegate playback to an external player (XWE + Winamp, so that the XWE author doesn't have to manage playback + editing at the same time).

[Steeveeo]

Maes said:

The easiest thing to do (which wouldn't halt development) would be adding support for DETECTING a sound format, and delegate playback to an external player (XWE + Winamp, so that the XWE author doesn't have to manage playback + editing at the same time).

I thought it could already simultaneously play MUS and MIDI sounds while editing other files...

[Maes]

Steeveeo said:

I thought it could already simultaneously play MUS and MIDI sounds while editing other files...

These are actually transparently handled by external applications: MUS can only be played if you have the MUS2MIDI utility and then XWE uses a standard Win32 control for playing back the MIDI, which doesn't interfere with the rest of the application. This won't work if you don't have MIDI2MUS installed on your system, in some form. Other formats will either require an external library, external app, custom handling code, or likely all of these things.

[Steeveeo]

well if thats true then why CANT it already play other sound files? It can search for ACC versions on your comp automatically, so why not CODECs?

[Maes]

ACC? All I know is that it searches for midi2mus and mus2midi within certain search paths (manual setup maybe required) and then WAVE and MIDI playback, are, let's say, "granted" by Windows itself (an MCI call, if I'm not wrong). Other formats, as you said, require management of the installed codec database (especially Ogg Vorbis is a bitch to properly support) and ATM this whole thing goes a bit beyond from the author's goals. Right?

[Steeveeo]

You dont know what ACC is? Have you ever mapped for ZDoom or any other ACS supporting game? Well its a script compliler (turns english text into hexadecimal or somtm like that for the BEHAVIOR lump), and when you first try to use it in XWE a prompt will open up asking you where it is or if it should find it itself, so my question was, "Why not have that same feature for sound codecs?"

[Maes]

Yeah, I read out and found out what ACC was, but it's clearly not the same thing.

MIDI and WAVE support are, let's say, "native" to windows since version 3.0, so literally even a total n00b can put together one line of Visual Basic that says "play that .mid or .wav file", nothing new about that. Most people's first "real" application with Visual Basic or C++ or even Delphi is a crude "media player" that uses extremely simple playback command for formats that need absolutely no loading and parsing.

Sorting through a machine's installed codec library after determining what the file type is...well...is not that trivial, that's why there's a difference like Day and Night between support for WAV&MID and any other format.

Oh, and since ACC is a script format stored in a lump with a very precise name, it is literally shit-easy to detect its presence in a WAD, and since the program that compiles it has a very characteristic filename and/or registry signature, it's also easy to detect.

What you're asking about detecting and supporting more sound formats requires the powers of a full-fledged mediaplayer, and probably goes well beyond the purpose of XWE.

[Steeveeo]

ACC is the EXE to COMPILE it, not the FORMAT

format is ACS (or Actionscript) and is used in Hexen (or Heretic?), ZDoom, and Flash Movies/games/interactive documents, though none of them use the exact same commands

[Bloodshedder]

Thread closed until Csabo returns to settle this matter.