Food for Thought: Medicating Children

[Sharessa]

4-Year old dies of massive perscription drug overdose

Discuss.

[Dr. Zin]

IIRC four year olds cannot be diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder (maybe ADD too). Whoever wrote those prescriptions is a criminal.

[Sharessa]

Oh yeah, and difficulty = no wishing for/plotting the deaths of the parents. That response is to obvious and cliche.

[Hobbs]

3 things. Diagnosing a 4 year old with ADHD or bipolar disorder is super fucked up, and strong evidence towards the argument that ADHD is an overdiagnosed disease. Second, I've taken Depakote, for migraine headaches actually, and that shit can fuck you up. The dumbass that prescribed it to a 4 year old should at the very least lose his license to practice medicine, and if it had been the cause of death I'd say it should be taken much further. Third, why are people like the Rileys allowed to parent? I see fuckups on all sides here.

[alexz721]

I only favor the use of medication if all other options have been exhausted (of course, it depends on the illness). Also, it is way, way harder to diagnose psychiatric problems in young children than in adolescents or adults.

[Ralphis]

Hobbs said:

Diagnosing a 4 year old with ADHD or bipolar disorder is super fucked up, and strong evidence towards the argument that ADHD is an overdiagnosed disease.

1) $$$
2) Parents who have a hard time controlling their children
3) Profit!

I always thought that those types of drugs are mostly applied to people making excuses for having active personalities. I don't even think I would consider most cases a "disorder". It's a great way to rob your pockets sure, but it's also a great way to rob you of your character.

[Csonicgo]

and all the people that actually have ADD/ADHD (note that this is a VERY SMALL NUMBER) are worried that the FDA may pull these meds if this shit keeps up.

[Bucket]

These parents need to be removed from the gene pool. OOPS DARN

[Technician]

ADD is genuine but is mostly bullshit. Some kids are just eccentric. I remember back in fifth grade my teacher couldn't control me so she just suggested to my parents for ADD testing and medication. She was embarrassed when my mother asked her if she simply told me to sit down.

It's for parents who can't stabilize their kids and want to "bring them down" These parents didn't deserve a kid and it’s a shame she's dead because of a few lazy, money hungry idiots.

[insertwackynamehere]

I love how drugs which kill a child's mind are acceptable replacements for actual discipline, yet the same people putting out these drugs and advertising their use constantly talk about how illicit drugs used for recreation also kill the mind (and then depending on the illicit drug accused, you have to look and see how true that really is).

Children are naturally curious and don't focus as well as adults. It isn't a disorder, it's a necessity for growth. A young child also commonly goes from extreme glee to a tantrum. It isn't bipolar disorder, when it's occurring at 4 years of age. But I guess it's easier to kill the minds of the future than it is to nurture them. Likewise, it adds to the irony that some drugs which arguably open the mind are illegal while ones which shut the mind down are not only legal, but acceptable and overused.

Also, note in the article how extremely messed up the family sounds. The lawyers used the excuse that they were on welfare and unemployed and to them the doctor is God, so they just did what they were told. They didn't look things up for themselves. However it seems that they were pushing for increased dosages of the medication, and they are the ones who brought a 2 year old to a psychiatrist in the first place (not a psychologist, not a therapist, not a psychoanalyst but a medicine-prescribing psychiatrist). Also, I've always been under the impression that people in those types of financial situations were reluctant to pay for medicine, especially more than they "needed". They see the doctors as another aspect of the machine which bleeds them dry. Obviously I can't generalize, but I seriously doubt they saw their doctor as God because I don't think anyone sees doctors that way. People are very cynical, and see doctor's as the face of the expensive health insurance, the expensive medicine and the rich, faceless pharmaceutical companies, even if the doctors themselves are (hopefully) just doing their job which is helping people.

[Gokuma]

Yay for america. Way to go.

[Mindless Rambler]

A friend of mine down the street takes ritalin because his mom thinks he's hyperactive, no ADHD, just hyperactive. His mom makes him take it because he'll get out of control and all that etc, though I was hanging out with him once when he went without it for a day and he was completely normal. Whenever he's on it he has a hard time thinking and reacting to things, almost like he's a zombie...

[Sharessa]

Okay, here's my take on the subject:

I'm pretty leery on the subject of prescription drugs. Years ago, I was diagnosed with depression and they put me on Zoloft which just kind of made me a wired fucktard and I lost a ton of friends. Since that and an incident where I was prescribed a bit too much codeine, I've pretty much resolved not to take anything that I'm going to be on for the long term. Since then I went to another shrink who tried to diagnose me with "adult ADD" even though I'm a pretty quiet and stable person. He wouldn't stop going back to the subject despite my attempts to steer the conversation to more important topics. Stopped going to him. Last few times I went to a GP I got similar incidents. Last time I went in cause I was feeling like shit all over. Doctor diagnosed me with acid reflux and tried to get me on these pills which cost an assload and came in this kit which was little more than some sort of pamphlet trying to sell em them. His diagnosis was correct, but I ended up ditching the pills and lowering my pasta intake (tomatoes increase heartburn chances). Haven't had acid reflux problems since. He didn't even ask me what my diet was, just gave these pills to me.

So that's where I'm coming from. I see the medical industry as a huge racket owned by the pharmaceutical companies. Doctors are pushers for the drug companies. This overdiagnosing of ADD and diagnosing FUCKING TODDLERS with shit like bipolar disorder (an illness that doesn't actually manifest until adolesence) is just a sampling of how this is fucking with society. The doctor who perscribed the meds in this case is a idiotic tool if not a souless bastard. The parents are depraved individuals. The drug companies are out of control and dispensing bad advice...scratch that...allowing doctors, no, ENCOURAGING doctors to dispense bad advice to the patients they took an oath to help.

Of course, if parents actually took the effort to FUCKING RAISE THEIR KIDS these days we may not be having these problems. It's also interesting to note that the rise in prescribing psychological meds to minors coincides with an increase in school shootings. Of course, they could both just be symptoms of the lack of parents caring about their children anymore.

That was really a piss-poor rant. I'm sorry, it's late.

[Quasar]

ADHD is most accurately defined as not possessing the personality traits most conducive to one's development into the model capitalist sheep who can repress all emotion and creative impulses on a permanent basis in order to facilitate maximum efficiency in doing a job that is pure shit.

[Mindless Rambler]

Wikipedia's article on the Columbine shooting said:

During his evaluation by doctors at the program, Harris was prescribed the anti-depressant Zoloft. Shortly afterwards Harris admitted to having suicidal and homicidal thoughts to his parents. But, instead of being taken off anti-depressants completely, Harris was switched to the very similar drug Luvox. Some analysts have argued that this medication may have contributed to Harris' actions, and claimed that side-effects of these drugs include increased aggression, loss of remorse, depersonalization and mania. A correlation is claimed between "school shooters" whose medical history has been made public and the use or recent discontinuation of such medications.

Marilyn Manson said:

I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did.

I feel certain that this could be applied to all kids these days and not only to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

[Quast]

Mindless Rambler said:

I feel certain that this could be applied to all kids these days and not only to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

Yes, one person took a certain medication and then they killed some people. Therfore, the medication made him do this. Therfore, it will make other people do this. Therfore, pharmaceuticals are bad. Therfore, all pharmaceutical companies, and probably the pharmacist too, are run by Lex Luthor and are hellbent on taking your money and turning you into a capitalist.

Is that what i'm getting from this thread? Unless I'm mistaken in the direction of peoples anger here over the child who OD'd. I mean, pharmaceutical companies? So what? What do they really have to do with the article? Last I checked, the pharmaceutical companies that make pills don't prescribe medication to people. Or magically overmedicate peoples children for them.

"And a pharmacist complained that Rebecca's mother kept coming up with excuses for why her daughter needed more and more medication."

"her parents have been arrested on murder charges, accused of intentionally overmedicating their daughter to keep her quiet and out of their hair."

God damn pharmaceutical companies and their schemes!

also lol marilyn manson and his "I'll say this because it sounds good, it makes it seem like I truly care and my fanbase will, with absolute certainty, watch this documentary and maybe buy my next album"

[Mindless Rambler]

Ummm no, I was getting at the point that people should be paying attention to kids instead of shutting them up with drugs you incoherent twit.

Oh yeah, and of course Marilyn Manson would go on a documentary to promote an album, doesn't matter that his last LP was released in 2003, and was an unsuccessful at that... yeah, just dripping with advertisement...

[Sharessa]

Quast said:

Is that what i'm getting from this thread? Unless I'm mistaken in the direction of peoples anger here over the child who OD'd. I mean, pharmaceutical companies? So what? What do they really have to do with the article? Last I checked, the pharmaceutical companies that make pills don't prescribe medication to people. Or magically overmedicate peoples children for them.

Well there has to be SOME reason why doctors are just giving away medicine before even discussing other options, or why doctors are tossing diagnoses at children for acting like children. Either it's the drug companies or our entire college-level medical education system is fucked up. I don't know which way Occam's razor cuts.

[alexz721]

Or, using your Occam's razor theory, prescribing medication is easy, especially when you can just check off symptoms and give the patient something for said symptoms.

[myk]

Danarchy said:
I see the medical industry as a huge racket owned by the pharmaceutical companies. Doctors are pushers for the drug companies.

Where such issues occur the drug companies may exert their pressure, but the whole industry generally isn't any less mercenary than the pharmaceutical branch.

Of course, if parents actually took the effort to FUCKING RAISE THEIR KIDS these days we may not be having these problems.

If the parents are, in their own way, about as mentally disturbed as their child, they're hardly going to do anything of the sort. If doctors provide their services to families and individuals as opposed to society, they may end up serving their sick needs instead of aiming to cure their sickness.

[Dr. Zin]

While I think what the drug companies are pushing their products too hard, I can see their perspective.

They spend a shitload money on R&D and producing the drug. These neuro-chemistry altering drugs would only sell to a specific market of like 5000 patients who have a certain disorder, so they get it approved for depression or anxiety or whatever. As an aside, it has always seemed to me that depression an anxiety are not diseases in and of themselves, bu symptoms of a deeper disorder.

Anyway, the companies need to sell alot of the drugs to recoup their costs (which is a flaw of overly privatizing health care and pharmaceutical R&D). Again, I don't agree with these but I can see the reasoning.

And that stuff that they prescribe for ADD is nasty. I was on one pill for only three days as it made me into a zombie, and another caused me to lose all of my appetite.

[Sharessa]

Dr. Zin said:

WAs an aside, it has always seemed to me that depression an anxiety are not diseases in and of themselves, bu symptoms of a deeper disorder.

Probably true, and I think in most cases the root disorder is treatable without meds. I was diagnosed with both depression and anxiety disorders. At one point my depression was so bad I attempted suicide. But since then I've managed to put myself into the right frame of mind and I'm completely over my depression and like halfway to being over my social anxiety.