rtcw, doom3, halflife´s narrative standard

[Zaldron]

But for example, I´m pretty sure the id crew always had some cool story ideas, but most time didn´t managed to work it out for the released game... for example Quake: In every episode you start in a different part of the military base, that feels as if there was some story idea behind it, but in the end? Or the 4 runes, they ended up as completely useless artefacts you collected in the end of each episode...and finally, after killing Shub Nigurath, "id software salutes you"...wtf?

I know exactly what you mean. It's like if they always screw up the early design process. They change features/plot/concept way too erratic. But I'm confident they learned from their mistakes.

Take a look at RtCW, they just monitored the development, and while some people are bitching, any poll shows a VERY good response for the game.

[Lord FlatHead]

WTF was that guy doing?

Marc Laidlaw is a horror author who came up with the backstory of HL and oversaw the level design. I think.

[Dima]

Firstable, Return To Castle Wolfenstein is an EXCEPTIONAL game, definetly among the best games I EVER played!

The story there is very, very well done with many cool twists happening in between, and generally, the game is AWESOME!

Secondable, I really hope the new DOOM game won't be anything near Half-Life!

Till this day, I can't understand how it won so many awards!
I would take Quake II over this crap any day!

And yes, I finished Half-Life and it's missions packs.

3) Apache is an Epic fan boy, that's true.

I mean, what did he expect? updated Wolf3D universe?!

I am really glad RTCW didn't stay true to Wolf3D's spirit - it only made things SO much better!

And I really hope the new DOOM game won't stay true to old DOOM's spirit also, cause it would just ruin the game!

People who want that to happen must face reality, cause the new DOOM game won't be anything like the old one! GET THAT in you minds cause I am getting tired of reminding this to some people in these forums!

[Dark-tenshi]

i don't have a chance to play RTCW yet.somebody say it rocks.sombody says it sucked.maybe it's just the matter of tastes.btw i just preodered it and will play to see how it is.i hope i will like it.

[Dima]

dark-tenshi - I can assure you that you won't be dissapointed!

[Tetzlaff]

That sounds promissing Dima :) Well I have to wait till I play the game myself.

But who wants Doom3 to be like Halflife? I´m talking only about immersiveness, and the way a game can tell a story with the help of scripted sequences, player interaction, NPCs and things like that. Just those points.

[SoKatH]

I dunno, I'm a big fan of halflife in general, but Doom just has such a distinct feel to it. It's Doom, I mean honestly, that's all there is to say about it. I doubt id hired a professional writer to do the story, cuz honestly, in Doom, the focus isn't on the story, it's on the gameplay and how it makes you feel. id just isn't into good stories (for the love of God, look at the quake series). There's never been any really big emphasis on the story, with id, it's all about new technology.

The most advanced they ever got, plot-wise, was with Doom, and honesly I think that's quite enough. They gave you a nice little .bat readme file with quite enough background information in it to get you into the game, to understand what was going on, and to a certain extent, why. But I don't think it should get much more than that. Maybe get a bit more in depth with the storyline and such, and I like Tetzlaff's idea of in game characterization, like halflife, but really, no further. Call me a purist, but I think that's how Doom should be.

And as a matter of personal interest Tetzlaff: are they releasing RTCW in Germany? Cuz I seem to recall reading somewhere, a long time ago, that the original one was banned.

Cheers

S./

[Dima]

Tetzlaff - RTCW already does all these things MUCH better than Half-Life (my opinion).

Sokath - from what I heard (my sources), id did hire two professional holywood writers to write the story (I also know some bits of the story but I won't say, for now...).

Also, RTCW will be released in Germany but with a delay.

[Katarhyne]

Your skill is not enough.

YOU FAIL IT!!

There is not a single doubt in my mind that the new Doom will be a good game, with superb graphics and sound, and a mediocre storyline leaving you with a decent to good game. (6.5-8.5 on a 10 scale)

Which is more or less how I've felt about every id game since Doom. I mean, for me, Doom was a 9.5, Quake was a 7, Quake II was an 8, Quake 3 was an 8.5...who knows, maybe they'll suprise us. But I doubt it.

Pardon me of little faith.

As far as the topic goes, immersion, I suspect the new Doom to be very immersive. As a matter of fact, I think that's kind of the point.

All other things aside, this is the main area where Half-Life succeeded and other games have failed. Immersion.

[Prime]

Sokath - from what I heard (my sources), id did hire two professional holywood writers to write the story (I also know some bits of the story but I won't say, for now...).

Wait, wait, wait...Dima, that's just not cool. You don't just say, "Hey guys, I know some of the Doom 3 story!" Then say, "But, for now, I can't say..." Now you HAVE to tell us. Just post it in a new post that clearly says something like 'Spoilers ahead.'

Dammit! I want to know!

[danarchist]

I also heard that Trant Reznor was doing the soundtrack. Is this true?

Which is more or less how I've felt about every id game since Doom. I mean, for me, Doom was a 9.5, Quake was a 7, Quake II was an 8, Quake 3 was an 8.5...who knows, maybe they'll suprise us. But I doubt it.

Hmmm...I'd say:
Commander Keen: 8
Wolfenstein: 6
Doom: 9
Doom 2: 9
Quake: 6
Quake 2: 9
Quake 3: 5
RTCW: I'll just have to see...

[Lord FlatHead]

Wolfenstein: 7
Doom: 10
Doom 2: 7
Quake: 6
Quake 2: 8
Quake 3: 6
RTCW: Just got the game today, I'm in mission three and it already rox0rs the box0rs. Right now I'd give it an 8, but I'll just have to wait until I've finished the game.

[Zaldron]

Wolfenstein : 7. Yeah shocking game but only because it was the first FPS I've ever played.

DooM : 10. nuff' said.

DooM II : 7. Meh.

Quake : 9. This game's a masterpiece, a true classic that defined how 3D games are designed.

Quake 2 : 8. Oh I beated this game so many times. Never really cared about the multiplayer.

Quake III : 8. Most people loathe this game because of lack of innovation. I've found in it that multiplayer fun I used to have with Quake but lost playing Quake 2. Even if Q3 feels more like Q2, this time the elements did attract me.

[Prime]

Wolf : 7
Doom : 10
Doom II : 9 (lack of real innovation)
Quake : 9 (it's not Doom)
Quake II : 9 (it gave me more than 'find the key')
Quake III : 8
RTCS : Haven't played it yet

[danarchist]

I wish I had a website...then I'd review games and movies...

Okay, I'm sorry, there are two things I do randomly at the wrong times. One is to speak my mind. The other is to quote random obscure things.
Be Mine, sister slavation,
Juke Joint Jezabels coming for my cremation.
You see what I mean?

Wow, I'm glad I looked over this before I submited it...it origionaly said Dooms and movies...Geez, I'm already losing it and its only 8:30

[Prime]

I wish I had a website...then I'd review games and movies...

Okay, I'm sorry, there are two things I do randomly at the wrong times. One is to speak my mind. The other is to quote random obscure things.
Be Mine, sister slavation,
Juke Joint Jezabels coming for my cremation.
You see what I mean?

Wow, I'm glad I looked over this before I submited it...it origionaly said Dooms and movies...Geez, I'm already losing it and its only 8:30

Going insane at 8:30? Jeeze...
Don't worry, we all just speak our minds at one point or another. ok, maybe some more than others...What's with the quotes? Do you like literature? You might have to tell us what they mean every once and awhile...

[Dark-tenshi]

Also, RTCW will be released in Germany but with a delay.

they delay the release in germany ,because they have to re print the manual.mybe the US version manual may contain the pic of that Nazi symbol or some nazi content.

thx for assuring me DIMA,hope that i can get the copy soon.

[Tetzlaff]

Yes, there will be a special edition of RTCW released for Germany, mainly because of the Nazi symbol issues. German laws are very strict regarding those issues, for obvious historical reasons, to show respect for the countless victims of the Nazi terror.
Symbols like the swastika, or SS runes are only tolerated in movies with historical setting, or in art. Well, in my opinion a game like RTCW is comparable to a movie with historical setting, and in some way computer games also have to do with art, but many Germans feel that a game like RTCW would be like "having fun with Nazis" and find it disgusting, and I can understand this.
From what I heard, for the German version swastikas and other Nazi symbols will be replaced with fascistoid looking fictional symbols (mainly that double eagle logo), and the second point (which is a lot more work) will be that the german soldiers and Nazis in the game will actually speak german, and not just english with a german accent (and a few words like "Achtung") like in the US version ;)

[Dima]

I finished RTCW yesterday.

As I already said, the game is absolutely AMAZING!

FlatHead - wait till you get to the mission where you have to assasinate five generals, probably the best looking level of the whole game and my favourite also.

[SoKatH]

Be Mine, sister slavation,
Juke Joint Jezabels coming for my cremation.
You see what I mean?

Bah, KMFDM's not that obscure. What do you take us for?

S./

[Zaldron]

Yeah, they're replacing the swatiskas for the Wolfenstein eagle in the German version. To avoid incompatibility among players in online games, all versions use that eagle when it comes to Multiplayer sessions.

[Prime]

Yeah, they're replacing the swatiskas for the Wolfenstein eagle in the German version. To avoid incompatibility among players in online games, all versions use that eagle when it comes to Multiplayer sessions.

Hhhmmmm...Well, I can definitely understand why Id would replace the Nazi symbol with the eagle. They didn't do that with the American version, did they?
On a side note, everyone needs to play Halo for the Xbox as soon as possible. EGM gave it a perfect 10 pts across the board, and people, this game just rocks. It's not creepy like Doom, but I'm getting damn addicted...

[Lord FlatHead]

Hmmm, the guys over at Penny Arcade seem to think Halo's boring. Oh well, there's plenty of other good games on X-Box. And it's not like I'm ever going to own one anyway.

[Prime]

Hmmm, the guys over at Penny Arcade seem to think Halo's boring. Oh well, there's plenty of other good games on X-Box. And it's not like I'm ever going to own one anyway.

Ok, how about this...IMHO, Halo is one of the sweetest FPS's I've ever played...and I've played alot...

[Zaldron]

Aah, Halo. I think Lowtax said it best :

LOOK!!!! A JEEP!!!

That's it for me. Just a game more.

[Prime]

Aah, Halo. I think Lowtax said it best :

LOOK!!!! A JEEP!!!

That's it for me. Just a game more.

It's because this is a Doom forum, isn't it?

[Zaldron]

Not really. It's because that game promised to be something good centuries ago. Today's nothing more than a glorified game, one of the first games using the X-Box technology, and I can imagine why is such a gamers magnet.

Besides, I loathe consoles. Flexibility, expandibility and customization are what make PC games truly shine.

[Prime]

Not really. It's because that game promised to be something good centuries ago. Today's nothing more than a glorified game, one of the first games using the X-Box technology, and I can imagine why is such a gamers magnet.

Besides, I loathe consoles. Flexibility, expandibility and customization are what make PC games truly shine.

Oh, I agree with you totally when it comes to console games. Frankly, they suck when compared to PC games, at least in the area of control. I meant that it was one of the best FPS's I had played for console. I play Q3 for the Dreamcast quite often, but to really kick everyone's ass I have to plug in the keyboard and mouse. It's just easier that way. I guess I am so happy with Halo because it's actually one of the better games for an otherwise somewhat sucky system...

[Zaldron]

I guess you'll have to wait a couple of years before a really great slate of X-box projects floods the console. Kinda like the Dreamcast, the final games where really, really good.