Hellbent Posted May 20, 2007 OKAY!! I made this post like a few aeons ago. And I STILL want to make it happen! I want to replace the plasma gun with a laser gun that would be more fun that the plasma gun: Main differences: Shoots less frequently than the plasma (not as rapid fire) The lasers travel 2.5 times faster than the plasma projectiles travel. They inflict about 30% less damage. They are smaller (they're lasers) so they don't block your entire view creating the mindless chaos and mayhem of the plasma rifle (nothing wrong with mayhem, but for DM I'd prefer the laser gun!) My thinking: For me the fun of the laser rifle --other than it's lasers which are cool- is that it brings the level of crazed frantic fast paced attacking and defending to a new level. To sum up: My vision for a new laser weapon to replace plasma rifle: Shoots about 7 rounds for every two seconds (or 3.5 rounds a second-- roughly same speed as chaingun but perhaps a smidge faster) travels about 2.5 times faster than plasma each projectile inflicts about 2/3 the damage of a plasma projectile Is this possible? Any input? Conversation I had with r tonight on the issue: Grotug: still wanna replace the plasma gun with a laser gun r: that should be possible Grotug: can't make the projectiles any faster tho because of some limitation with the engine r: easy, in fact r: oh r: i know speed of rockets, etc can be adjusted r: didn't know of upper limit r: not sure i've ever seen FASTR rockets/plasma, etc Grotug: right r: but SSG, Shotgun, and chaingun are instantaneous Grotug: well, i'd like to make the plasma rifle a lazer rifle that has the lazers travel much faster but do less damage and fire a little less frequent (not quite as rapid fire) r: need instant light beam that stays ON a few sec? Grotug: plasma rifle unloads a helluva lot of ammo fast r: or one second or partial second? Grotug: hmm? r: ya, i see what you mean r: well r: some weaps shoot instantaneously across limited distance [SSG] Grotug: to me it would be more satisfying if the lasers were really fast- nearly instant- but not instant Grotug: right Grotug: all "pellet" weapons r: i agree, not instant r: you sure about that upper limit? or what limit is? Grotug: i'd want the lasers to travel say a mile in one second (2.5 times faster than plasmas travel) Grotug: yeah, upper limit Grotug: so i've been told r: - Grotug: i think i messed with it a long time ago in DeHackEd and couldn't get it to go faster Grotug: was buggy if too fast r: ok Grotug: shoot all over Grotug: funny-- i had this idea years ago and it's still clear in my head r: - r: i'm familiar with that Grotug: half a mile in say half a second Grotug: like 2.5 times faster than plasma Grotug: plamsa you can outrun? r: seems would appear instant to human eye? Grotug: or run same speed r: it seems plasma moves faster than rockets Grotug: mm... not to a discerning eye :) r: can outrun rockets Grotug: yeah Grotug: plasma faster than rockets r: ya, and plasma isn't fast enuf to look like laser Grotug: i don't think you can outrun plasma but you can run just a little slower Grotug: right Grotug: would be goofy r: but would look good, i think Grotug: fast lasers means you can chase down the dude Grotug: yea Grotug: but still have to employ a little anticipatory aiming as in rockets and plasma r: right Grotug: but rockets and plasma are so "slow" relative to player movement that you can't *really* do any sensible predicting r: you type fast ! Grotug: because by the time the rocket has gotten to the person he can already have ran a quarter mile in any direction Grotug: hah Grotug: i knew a girl online who could type faster than most people can speak r: yes, you have to 'lead' a lot with those weaps Grotug: yeah r: ya, i knew a guy like that r: astounding r: scary Grotug: so my laser idea strikes a nice balance between instantaneous and plasma speed Grotug: hehe r: ya, that would be good Grotug: dunno who to get to do that tho r: you checked rail gun? Grotug: i don't like it r: i think i've seen or got documents and notes about altering weaps r: what about rail gun speed? r: not instant, is it? Grotug: is it not instant? Grotug: heh Grotug: i think it is r: not sure Grotug: maybe i'll make another post on the dw forums r: great idea r: ya, i think rail is instant r: there's a 'spiral' effect goes wth it, that effect might not be instant? r: anyway, spiral effect [around beam] not faster than plasma, i don't think r: .....dont' use rail much... Grotug: right- the spiral effect makes it seem non-instant r: what about-----broken/short rail beam. and weap reload real fast? Grotug: modify the railgun? Grotug: i want lasers heh r: but stays visible fraction of second r: ha Grotug: not sure i get your meaning r: no flexibiility, eh? Grotug: well, explain a litlte more r: i mean, rail beam short in length, short in time, and shoots often Grotug: i am pretty particular and specific about my ideas r: yes Grotug: so like a plasma r: a plasma that doesn't stay visible but a fraction of second Grotug: you mean the projectile? r: rail gun beam stays in air a second or more r: ya, projectile not visible long r: just a flash in the air r: and reloads real fast r: would NOT appear to be traveling, ....true Grotug: well, might be good Grotug: and still instantaneous r: yes r: just be visible less time than rail beam Grotug: for me the fun of the laser rifle --other than it's lasers which are cool- is that it brings the level of crazed frantic fast paced attacking and defending to a new level r: yes, i'm enthusiastic about such a thing Grotug: plasma can be dodged (you've seen me evade plasma pretty well at times--when i'm not being impatient) but it unloads soo fast that it's hard to get between blasts-- the laser gun, while travelling much faster-- would be unloading at a less rapid rate-allowing for more chance to dodge r: right Grotug: but helpful to the offender by being quicker to reach the target so the bastard can't just run away Grotug: it would make a great chasing weapon Grotug: chase a guy down with it r: i understand and agree with all that Grotug: hehe Grotug: awww.. if only we could do it r: my last suggestion might work about that way Grotug: but would be instant still r: fires a burst every one second Grotug: one second too infrequent Grotug: plasma is about 5 per second? Grotug: maybe more r: 'instant' crossing wad, but a slight delay between reloads Grotug: 7 or 8 Grotug: right r: 7 or 8 at least i think r: yes, you can dodge plasma, and i like that you can Grotug: here is a pretty close picture to my vision for laser: shoots about 7 rounds for every two seconds (or 3.5 a second) Grotug: travels about 2.5 times fater than plasma Grotug: does about 2/3 the damage r: i likeee Grotug: plamsa damage range is between 5 and 35 i believe r: - Grotug: so i'd want mine to be like 10-20 Grotug: not capable of more than 20 or maybe 25 Grotug: but most of the time like 15 Grotug: still a powerful weapon -more so than the chaingun r: post question on line, good idea. consider Grotug: about the same speed unloading as the chaingun r: alternatives, too Grotug: i hate compromising :-/ r: ya, that sounds like right numbers r: 'right' meaning, i think it'd work well play-wise Grotug: maybe a smidge faster than chaingun Grotug: ye Grotug: yea, gotchya meaning r: but a smidge slower if you have to compensate for instant crossing of wad r: well, chaingun is intant, too r: but aiming has to be precise r: [like rail gun] r: rail gun has to hit DEAD ON r: - r: short-lived rail beams, tho, would be visible all the way from shooter to place it hits. i know you dont' want that aspect r: ....don't know if visible rail-beams can be reduced lengthwise Grotug: visuals proly can be changed in any fashion r: then problem would be solved, i think 0 Share this post Link to post
EarthQuake Posted May 20, 2007 The only way I see the implementation of a laser type weapon is by having the plasma rifle fire a projectile that spawns other projectiles leaving behind a temporary "smoke trail" if you will. I don't think standard DeHackEd is going to be capable of this without any side effects across source ports, so you might be forced into the ZDoom realm with DECORATE, limiting your mod only to Skulltag and ZDoom. 0 Share this post Link to post
Hellbent Posted May 20, 2007 that's promising news. that's a limitation I would be very happy with as I map for Zdoom and greenwar was most popular on skulltag of any source port (i'd want to implement this weapon into my wads) Is DECORATE hard to learn? not sure I totally understood your post--but would I be able to make the laser weapon as I described it? thanks for the reply. 0 Share this post Link to post
EarthQuake Posted May 20, 2007 Hard to learn? Somewhat. The ZDoom wiki can tell you about the syntax of the lump and you can experiment from there. Basically, what you want is a walk in the park using ZDoom (speaking possibility, not difficulty). You can create a whole new weapon, along with some projectiles and things that you're going to use specifically for that weapon, that way you don't end up replacing something important that will adversely affect the mod. You can fully customize the projectiles, the weapon states, anything really. I would first try to see what you can come up with DeHackEd first. Try making the plasma bullet spawn imp fireballs or something where the fireballs are stationary, have no gravity, and "die" after a few tics. The idea is the same as a revenant homing missile emitting bullet puffs. You'll just have to get some custom sprites that make the job look better. 0 Share this post Link to post
Ultraviolet Posted May 20, 2007 The projectile-chain laser idea is great -- but not for a laser. It'd be better if the art concept were a particle beam, with each new projectile spawned moving at a semi-random rate forward (spawn it [rand] units forward, within a certain range) and a random offset perpendicular to the path of travel (also constrained to a certain amount of units). Could do the individual particles as small bubbles with a random color translation applied. Perhaps also with color range constraints. Anyway. It's unique, and I'd love to see it with the proper sprites. I also had this idea a bit back for a "linear tri-pulse" weapon: Fires a rail, and then simultaneously fires three different projectiles -- the first, a small, fast plasma-like projectile; the second, a bigger, slower one; and the third, the biggest, also the slowest. The slower the projectile, the more damage, but it's also harder to aim. Being a total of four shots (or maybe just three if the rail doesn't do damage -- it could be artistically just a "magnetic guidance stream" designed to give the shots their initial direction and velocity (hence speed falling as the stream fades), you have three/four pain chance calculations upon hitting -- if all shots hit -- and more damage against a target that is hit by all shots. If somebody does this, PLEASE notify me (because I'd love to see it), and maybe even credit me. :P As for sprites, I think Eriance has made stuff that would look good. But... perhaps he'd have sprite art ideas better suited to this concept than pre-existing work. 0 Share this post Link to post
Liberation Posted May 20, 2007 It would be fairly easy to do with EDGE. 0 Share this post Link to post
