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Jethro

Sector9, 10+ level wad I'm working on.

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Screenies of the first level. (not finished, and I need to throw in new flats)

Once level one is done, I'll throw it out onto the interwebs. There are a few things I need to figure out how to do first, namely if there is an easy way to convert a map I made from Doom format to Doom 2 format, and then rename it. I also need to make doors that appear red on the map, not yellow, for secrets.

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Jethro said:
if there is an easy way to convert a map I made from Doom format to Doom 2 format

Other than the header or name, the format is the same. Of course, then you'll have to make sure that only DOOM II and not DOOM textures are used. They share many, but some are unique to each game. Finally, you'll probably add some DOOM II items, decorations, and monsters, or change some, if applicable (since DOOM II has more than DOOM).

I also need to make doors that appear red on the map, not yellow, for secrets.

There's a "secret" flag for linedefs that does this.

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this tool might do it for you. Sweet little tool.
Go here:
http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/utils/editors.php#conv
Scroll down to convertors. grab: "DM2Conv 3.2"


might be fun to mess with this to see if it will do a good enough job for you.


doom to doom2 conversion example in a dos box.
Usage= c:\doom2\doomconverter\dm2conv.exe inferno.wad inferno2.wad @:DTOD2
Where, inferno can be the name of any wad. Could be "anywad.wad"
converts doom to doom2

ult doom to doom2
Usage= C:\doom2\doomconverter\dm2conv.exe anyd1.wad.wad anyd2.wad.wad @:uDTOD2

it doesn't change your orig map just converts to new name converted map.

"This program converts DOOM/ULTIMATE DOOM/DOOM2/HERETIC levels to run with
one of the other games: a total of eleven different conversion types."

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Heh that map looks strangely familiar I've played this one allready, have you fixed any of the bugs in this map?

I've been playing it for an bit a few days ago it was allright but too short and too easy, only one real trap the one with the lost souls I would like to see more traps and possibly some more height variation.

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dutch devil said:

Heh that map looks strangely familiar I've played this one allready, have you fixed any of the bugs in this map?

A few, but I still have a bit to do.

dutch devil said:I've been playing it for an bit a few days ago it was allright but too short and too easy, only one real trap the one with the lost souls I would like to see more traps and possibly some more height variation. [/B]

It's going to remain short, but I'm planning on adding a few extra monsters hither and yon.


Searcher, thanks, I may mess around with that for a wee bit.

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use wintex (or whatever you're using) to rename E1MX to MAPXX . That should be all. make sure the textures are doom2 as well. lookin' nice.

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Gah, it won't work. I'm just gonna copy the linedefs to another level, and re-assign the sector tags/values.

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kristus said:

It looks like a 1994 map with hi res textures and OpenGL rendering.

Exactly.
I'm sorry, but besides those nice, pretty textures, theres nothing to be seen. Not even a variety of heights or lights. Not to mention you have four screenshots, each of them is showing the same ceiling texture, the same floor texture, and about 3-4 different wall patches.

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I know, I need to fix that. I thought I put that in my first post? Apparently I did not. I thought I did. Yes, textures need work.

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Jethro said:
Gah, it won't work. I'm just gonna copy the linedefs to another level, and re-assign the sector tags/values.

You mean just renaming the level header? Remember what I said about the textures. If you do change the header, you need to open the level in your map editing tool and change any DOOM textures and flats to ones found in DOOM II.

ellmo said:
I'm sorry, but besides those nice, pretty textures, theres nothing to be seen. Not even a variety of heights or lights. Not to mention you have four screenshots, each of them is showing the same ceiling texture, the same floor texture, and about 3-4 different wall patches.

Big fucking deal. The textures and effects come with the engine, and should every newbie be concentrating on superfluous details and shit when they're learning the basics?

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At least he's not being arrogant about the quality of the wad, he never said it was supposed to be awe-inspiring, he's just making a map and happens to be using OpenGL. Keep practicing, not alot to go on in those shots, post more when you've got some varied areas in.

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kristus said:
I wouldn't call height variation "superfluous detail".

It's the crap snobs talk about in threads where a guy is working on his first level.

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Maybe so, but why does people always have to start with their first level as something they plan to release anyway? Why not get to learn the engine a bit more first?

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kristus said:
Why not get to learn the engine a bit more first?

That process does get faster if it isn't done all alone, and while we can judge his work and help a bit from screen shots and from his questions, certainly (and eventually) more so from a wad. If a new mapper can make (or release) a level with a good layout and suitable item placement that is relatively bugless, that's a good start.

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And without criticism, how would that work exactly? Granted that thecomments might have been harsher than they needed to be. But "It's the crap snobs talk about in threads where a guy is working on his first level." isn't suggesting that criticism is snobbish behaviour and generally bad and that's not exactly helping matters either.

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myk said:

That process does get faster if it isn't done all alone, and while we can judge his work and help a bit from screen shots and from his questions, certainly (and eventually) more so from a wad.


Which is exactly why I'm doing this.

myk said:

You mean just renaming the level header? Remember what I said about the textures. If you do change the header, you need to open the level in your map editing tool and change any DOOM textures and flats to ones found in DOOM II.


No, I mean... Gah, I'll break out camtasia, but it open for half a second, then closes. I'll edit this when it's on youtube.

EDIT: On youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wAAPAgdQE

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Try opening a command line prompt, going to the directory that application is in, and typing it's name (with or without the EXE extension).

kristus said:
Granted that thecomments might have been harsher than they needed to be.

It's not mainly that they're harsh, but that you can tell they're out of place under the circumstances (one comment that it doesn't look like Scythe2 is more than enough, but beyond that we might as well wait for the wad to play), and more like messages skilled but otherwise bored mappers might leave for each other because they are so cool, rather than actual criticism.

suggesting that criticism is snobbish behaviour and generally bad and that's not exactly helping matters either.

If I point out one piece or type of criticism is snobbish, I'm saying criticism in general is bad?

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myk said:

Try opening a command line prompt, going to the directory that application is in, and typing it's name (with or without the EXE extension).

It's not mainly that they're harsh, but that you can tell they're out of place under the circumstances (one comment that it doesn't look like Scythe2 is more than enough, but beyond that we might as well wait for the wad to play), and more like messages skilled but otherwise bored mappers might leave for each other because they are so cool, rather than actual criticism.

If I point out one piece or type of criticism is snobbish, I'm saying criticism in general is bad?


I think height variation is a pretty legitimate suggestion. It's not detail, it's one of the most important things one can do to make a Doom layout interesting. Without it, you essentially have Wolfenstein 3D with angled walls.

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myk said:

If I point out one piece or type of criticism is snobbish, I'm saying criticism in general is bad?


As I see it, "height variation" is the first level of criticism, if you would look at it from a advancement level. So, yes I would say, that saying that the first criticism you can expect to get as a newbie mapper is snobbery. Then you're actively arguing against any form of criticism for anyone starting out.

And IMO someone has to balance out the people that fill newbies with ideas that their first efforts "looks extremly beatiful, great work!!!". Cause that shit isn't helping anyone.

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esselfortium said:
I think height variation is a pretty legitimate suggestion. It's not detail, it's one of the most important things one can do to make a Doom layout interesting. Without it, you essentially have Wolfenstein 3D with angled walls.

Adding "a variety of lights and heights" is not something that helps an author distinguish between using height variation as a means of creating a solid design and adding junk to make the level look more complex. It's overkill for a starting mapper to have to worry about whether his rooms have enough lights sticking down, lighting level variations drawing all sorts of pseudorealistic effects, or ledges to flesh out the architecture all over the place.

kristus:
And IMO someone has to balance out the people that fill newbies with ideas that their first efforts "looks extremly beatiful, great work!!!". Cause that shit isn't helping anyone.

Ah, daimonreloaded's post? That wasn't sarcasm?

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myk said:

Ah, daimonreloaded's post? That wasn't sarcasm?


Either sarcasm or he's never seen a halfway decent wad. I KNOW mine sucks, and that I have a long way to go. But yeah, my wad is basically wolfenstien with more stuff.

myk said:

Try opening a command line prompt, going to the directory that application is in, and typing it's name (with or without the EXE extension).

It opens, I tell it
DM2CONV enav.WAD enav2.WAD @:DTOD2
and I get

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is a copy of the wad you are trying to convert in the same directory as the converter tool? Are you starting off in that same directory to run the tool?

I use the complete command line have you tried that? Can you set it up in a batch file and run it that way?

What is the operating system?

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Yeah, by the look of things the problem is that it's being executed from another directory (folder), such as the default for the command prompt. Go to the folder with the wad and place the converter files there (or just put the wad where the converter is), then make a text file that says:

DM2CONV enav.WAD enav2.WAD @:DTOD2

Then rename that text file to something with a BAT extension instead of a TXT extension (making sure your system lets you see the file extensions), and double click it.

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myk said:

It's the crap snobs talk about in threads where a guy is working on his first level.

Snobs? So now I'm a snob?
Pointing out three most important things about making the maps less mundane (texture varying, height varying and light varying) is snobbism, but being dishonest and giving a woo-hoo welcome, when we all see there's still much to be done - this is fine in your book.

If I were a snob I'd go: "Oh crap, you suck, go back to mapping kindergarden".
I didn't do that, beacuse I'm not a snob, and Jethro seems to be asking for help and criticism, and I'm trying to aid him because he knows how to use english, he plays along the forum rules, and he's not arrogant (as Use3D pointed out). If I remember correctly, that's exactly how community works - you show something, people tell you what they like / dislike. You choose to fix it the way you want, or not to fix it at all.

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myk said:

Adding "a variety of lights and heights" is not something that helps an author distinguish between using height variation as a means of creating a solid design and adding junk to make the level look more complex. It's overkill for a starting mapper to have to worry about whether his rooms have enough lights sticking down, lighting level variations drawing all sorts of pseudorealistic effects, or ledges to flesh out the architecture all over the place.


So, exactly what kind of criticism would you find valid for someone like Jethro here?
He said himself he knew this wasn't great work and is working to improve. But exactly what could he benefit from the community here, if they are to not give any criticism, as that apparently is "snobbish" behaviour now.
I suggested that people that is just starting out, would probably be better off getting familiarized with the engine, rather than publish their first struggling attempts. You then responded that he would learn faster by posting shots that even he apparently can't stand by as good work. So, what does he have to learn from us by this excercise?

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ellmo said:
Pointing out three most important things about making the maps less mundane (texture varying, height varying and light varying) is snobbism,

You know, those are the most mundane things about mapping, if sought per se. But even if it's just advice (however flawed), it depends how you say it, and when you say it.

but being dishonest and giving a woo-hoo welcome, when we all see there's still much to be done - this is fine in your book.

So, not giving half-assed advice that will hardly be useful (while supplying technical advice) is a "boo-hoo welcome"?

If I were a snob I'd go: "Oh crap, you suck, go back to mapping kindergarden".

I'd say that would just be being a rude jerk, which isn't the same thing.

kristus said:
So, exactly what kind of criticism would you find valid for someone like Jethro here?

Had I thought it was time for me to "give criticism" I would likely have posted some, so don't ask me.

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So, my first suggestion is valid then. Get comfortable with the engine, and then when you've come a fair bit on the way, get other people to help you with criticism and whatnot.

Glad we sorted that out.

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