ZDoom's Treasure Chest

[printz]

I'll see how this Chest ends up like. If it's not gonna look like KDiZD, then it'll be clear that the designers should have spent more time on them. No offence, but ZDoom makes low-detail maps look ugly. There are graphic enhancements for a world with plain, bare blocks of texture, constant mechanical door noise with clicking lifts, and a light that's always white, making everything pale, and unfitting for some strong coloured textures. Maybe this is why Tormentor667 insists on decoration. KDiZD looks proper in accordance with ZDoom's features.

[BoldEnglishman]

printz said:

Maybe this is why Tormentor667 insists on decoration. KDiZD looks proper in accordance with ZDoom's features.

Very true. Even though I said I only play ZDoom maps (which isen't entirely true but true for the most part), it's not as if I play EVERY ZDoom level I can. Just because a crappy WAD requires ZDoom doesn't mean I have to play it... it's still a crappy WAD.

Oh yeah, and I agree with what Enjay is saying. The only reason that I wrote that entire speech up there is because I had nothing better to do in a short span of time (as I was waiting for a scheduled event to occur -- enough time to write a speech like that, not enough time to get immersed in a WAD :P)

[Tango]

I agree with Printz. All ZDoom wads from this point on should look like KDiZD or else. Anything less is just unacceptable.

[esselfortium]

Oh yes, definitely. Printz, why do you insist that all wads look like something that does not even look that good? Take a look at RTC-3057, Suspended in Dusk, etc....there are so many wads which have significantly more inspiring architecture than KDIZD (though I will admit that some areas in KDIZD were very nice-looking), and much more consistent quality. I don't get it.

[printz]

Yeah, others wads too. Trouble is, I haven't downloaded them yet :)
esselfortium, you can substitute whatever good ZDoom wad over KDiZD in my other post.

Search for "KDiZD" by poster "printz" and get it that I am or was a fanboy.

Edit: I'm still holding my preference. Sprites look kinda brighter and more washed in ZDoom engine, probably due to different gamma correction. Add the stuff that made Doom 3 great, and it gets better IMO.

[BoldEnglishman]

printz said:

Search for "KDiZD" by poster "printz" and get it that I am or was a fanboy.

Particularly when your sig was "KDiZD. Get it now. Don't watch TV" or something and your avatar was "KDiZD. Get it now" :P

[ReX]

Zorro said:

One thing I don't understand is why people put so much effort into wads. .... I can't understand why people who are willing to do that much work don't instead invest it in an entirely new game or a more modern engine.

Probably because DooM is one of the easiest FPS games for which to create custom maps. Even with the many embellishments offered by source ports, it takes relatively less effort and hardware requirements to create a complex wad.

Using Plonker's analogy, consider a pencil & charcoal sketch artist who continues to use this medium even though water colors, pastels, and oils are available. The artist prefers not to switch because s/he enjoys making creations with pencils and charcoal.

[Enjay]

Zorro said:

One thing I don't understand is why people put so much effort into wads. Many of the large ones have multiple highly detailed maps, elaborate plot-lines, almost entirely new content, music, sounds, ect. I can't understand why people who are willing to do that much work don't instead invest it in an entirely new game or a more modern engine.

You're right, you don't understand. I'm not sure that I can explain it either. Suffice to say there is a lot more to it and it's far more complex than just the option a new shiny engine with modern technology (which, less face it, in a year or two will begin to look out-dated too). Equally, it's no more complex than where an individual finds their fun.

[myk]

Zorro said:
One thing I don't understand is why people put so much effort into wads. Many of the large ones have multiple highly detailed maps, elaborate plot-lines, almost entirely new content, music, sounds, ect. I can't understand why people who are willing to do that much work don't instead invest it in an entirely new game or a more modern engine.

That either came out wrong, or I didn't get it. Personally I'd rather put a lot of effort into an addon for DOOM which is my favorite game rather than some other newer game I don't even play. You seem to have gotten two things mixed up in there; features added by some engines with making wads in general.

Arguing that perhaps intead of adding many features to DOOM (and then making addons with that), one might want think of another game which already has some of those features (with some more consistently implemented, plus others not found in DOOM engines), is not the same as wondering why people bother to work diligently on DOOM wads (including all sorts).

Plonker said:
Actually I think making doom wads should be classed as art.

Okay, let's call the crappy wads with lots of effort "art".

It's a game, and that's its main purpose. Sure it's got artistic elements in its design process, but those are subservient to the function of playing. Art is something that is strongly aesthetic and makes a movement that escapes such dependence to a social function. I'm not saying you can't work on an artistic wad, but the process of making wads is only partly artistic, and not art in itself. The same things happens to other forms of entertainment, anyway, such as musical composition and movie making. A large part of it is not art (which doesn't necessarily imply it's bad... just not good as art).

printz said:
Sprites look kinda brighter and more washed in ZDoom engine, probably due to different gamma correction.

ZDoom looks like other software engines, the possible differences may be:

• It doesn't use colormaps for some effects, which can change appearances slightly
  
• Unlike in DOS engines hardware dependent brightness settings affect it
  
• Gamma correction can go over the maximum for Doom, Boom or PrBoom
  
• Some energy or flame sprites are washed out with inverse translucency (lamely it can't be disabled without disabling translucency in general)

So, if in general it looks different than, let's say, Doom or Boom to you, it's because you either set gamma to 2.0 or more, or increased the brightness setting for your graphics card (as opposed to the monitor's setting, which would also affect Doom).

[Zorro]

myk said:

That either came out wrong, or I didn't get it.

It probably came out wrong. Some of the works that turn up are truly amazing and fit perfectly in the doom world, however I often see projects which have great potential; Brilliant mappers and highly skilled artists, but the content is confined to the limitations of doom. Now, I'm not saying the limitations of doom are a bad thing - for doom - but when people change all of the gameplay mechanics, change the mindset of the game, and throw in entirely new content, they are virtually making a completely new game. What I don't understand is that if you are going to do *this* much work, why you choose doom. It is these projects that I don't understand (and not understanding does not mean I don't have respect them).

The typical doom "megawad," I understand, but if you are starting from scratch, why?

[Graf Zahl]

Zorro said:

What I don't understand is that if you are going to do *this* much work, why you choose doom. It is these projects that I don't understand (and not understanding does not mean I don't have respect them).

Simple: Because Doom is so easy to map for - unlike all the more recent true 3D-engines. And it still plays better than most of the newer games - and that extends to any add on that is being made even the ones you don't understand.

[myk]

Zorro said:
The typical doom "megawad," I understand, but if you are starting from scratch, why?

Yeah, I see what you mean, and tend to agree. At least it's clear that at that point considering another game will be a good possibilty. Like the Team Future guys that largely moved to DOOM 3 after RTC, to exploit its true 3D and greater freedom in handling detailed resources.

[printz]

Graf Zahl said:

Simple: Because Doom is so easy to map for - unlike all the more recent true 3D-engines.

Are you sure? In Quake, at least, I don't have to worry about missing textures, pegged textures, or misalignments. Not only that, but the need to draw solid blocks, and not the rooms directly, makes me more cautious for detail's sake.