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Quasar

Recent Executive Orders confirm US now a dictatorship

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Two recent Executive Orders issued by George Bush have given the administration what is inarguably totalitarian power.

Order to suspend all checks and balances in case of "catastrophic emergency"

Order allowing asset forfeiture for threats, actual or potential, or association with any other person making or potentially having made threats against the efforts to "stabilize" Iraq

Due to the extremely broad and vague wording, it is widely considered possible to apply the latter order against an act as simple as throwing a rock at an anti-war protest. Or being at a protest that the police *say* turned violent.

At any rate, I no longer see any reasonable way to deny that America is now Bush's personal empire.

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Hurry, escape to your cabin in the woods before Bush and his army of Nazi Robots come for you, Quasar! Oh god too late blehaljwkejlkjf argh!

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Bush is here for one more year. I'm sure he'll accomplish a lot (nothing) with it being his own personal empire.

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Don't forget the next president and every president after that will have these same powers. Don't trust in the Democrats to "clean house" and fix this damage to the government. Rather I'd expect them to take full advantage of it, probably ways in which Bush's small brain cannot fathom.

This is, of course, assuming that some sort of disaster doesn't create an excuse to cancel or postpone the election or the transfer of office. They thought about doing this last time and figured against it because it was too blatant. Seems they don't care about that now, however.

After all, Cheney has effectively declared the Vice President's office no longer part of the administration. This means that it now exists outside of the three-branch system of government as an independent and unanswerable authority. That's pretty blatant.

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We should use this thread as an experiment. When clear, black & white cases of abuse stemming from these executive orders come forward, we post them. Then we can judge whether or not this is something to be worried about or just idle speculation.

As I understand it, the second order Quasar listed says that assets may be frozen, not seized. The 5th amendment protects individuals from having things seized from them without due process by the government. I need to study up more on both of these, but it's hard to say if we should be so alarmed. I'm certainly not seeing the "ZOMG! Bush is a Nazi and founding member of the Illuminati" connections, myself.

Edit:
Yeah, the first order seems to have a few requirements before it can executed, such as a "Catastrophic Emergency", which according to the order itself means "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions." So unless a bunch of Neocons commit suicide when Hillary is elected into office, I don't see them wresting power in a coup right before the 08 elections with this.

It's hard getting unbiased information about this since a quick Google search only turns up a bunch of wacko liberal blogs talking about how George "Heil Hitler!" Bush is going to usurp authority and turn this nation into dictatorship.

Plus, this was issued in May, nearly three months ago, and nothing has happened.

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The 5th amendment protects only against search/sezuire.

"All powers rest within Executive in the event of a catastrophic emergency..." does this include choking on pretzels?

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The President of Iraq wrote:
due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people

Quasar said:
Due to the extremely broad and vague wording, it is widely considered possible to apply the latter order against an act as simple as throwing a rock at an anti-war protest. Or being at a protest that the police *say* turned violent.

And why would sources of information, programs, articles, or pubications which could according to the government "undermine Iraq's stability" not be affected? There is already obviously pressure so that certain types of reports do not get into "serious" publications (anyone can recall the incident between Scott McClellan and Newsweek), and by the vagueness of the decree, it should well serve to enforece this, since even if it's not legally applied very often it should still be usable as a threat to influence the media.

And it looks like Canada is joining in with this new dictatorial fad. But since they don't have any relevant military activities to criticize or oppose, they resort to sending their cops to beat up foreign teenage football players.

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It is possible that Ron Paul may be U.S.'s last hope but lets see how thats going to falter through.....(very unlikely since America is a Capitalist Plutocratic Oligarchy (and a possibility of a Cryptocracy behind the U.S. Government and other World Politics such as the E.U. ,etc in Conspiracy terms) that never was a democracy ever since the beginning...)

It's most likely that Bush and Co will stage another false flage (like I
have been trying to warn you about 9/11 being a inside job all along...you need to do your own research before it's too late....) before the elections or sooner so they will begin their Reign of Terror by declaring Martial Law and round up and put U.S. Citizens (dissenters) in gulags/forced labor camps/concentration camps for their own nasty purposes...Otherwords this Martial Law will also trigger a Revolutionary/Civil War between the Citizens fighting for their freedom and their own Government whom is trying to create an oppressive dystopia known as the North American Union....

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/20/83134/7689
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

You have been warned for those living in the States....(this could also happen to the citizens within the E.U. aswell...)

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All of which of course is precursor to the New World Order. If there was any cause to take up arms over it would be that :|

Also, bush is putting Cheney in power when he goes to have his pooper inspected for polyps, so expect a slew of executive orders immediately following.

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Nightmare Doom said:

It is possible that Ron Paul may be U.S.'s last hope but lets see how thats going to falter through.....

It's most likely that Bush and Co will stage another false flage (like I
have been trying to warn you about 9/11 being a inside job all along...you need to do your own research before it's too late....) before the elections or sooner so they will begin their Reign of Terror by declaring Martial Law and round up and put U.S. Citizens (dissenters) in gulags/forced labor camps/concentration camps for their own nasty purposes...Otherwords this Martial Law will also trigger a Revolutionary/Civil War between the Citizens fighting for their freedom and their own Government whom is trying to create an oppressive dystopia known as the North American Union....

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/20/83134/7689
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

You have been warned....

You make me think of John Titor...

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While I appreciate the effort to blame 9/11 on the Bush administration, you people all forget that Bush is too goddamn STUPID to even think of crashing a plane into a tall building for political gain. He's dumb, but not evil. I wouldn't stab him if I saw him walking down the street. It's the people controlling him, like Cheney and Rove, who are the real bastards.

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Everyone knows the USA is not a democracy, except the americans themselves. It's not a fascist dictatorship yet, though. That moment will arrive when Bush's puppetmasters 'temporarily suspend' the next election due to yet another 'national emergency'.

PS: I see some people claiming that a militia will be formed to deal with a dictator..? Like, LOL. You people can't even be bothered to turn up to VOTE. This indifference has been the main cause it's come this far in the first place.

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Quasar said:

This is, of course, assuming that some sort of disaster doesn't create an excuse to cancel or postpone the election or the transfer of office. They thought about doing this last time and figured against it because it was too blatant. Seems they don't care about that now, however.

"The Fourth K" anyone?

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Mordeth said:

PS: I see some people claiming that a militia will be formed to deal with a dictator..? Like, LOL. You people can't even be bothered to turn up to VOTE. This indifference has been the main cause it's come this far in the first place.


That's because they're all too busy posting liberal scaredy cat bullshit on Doomworld and jerking off to anime to bother leaving their houses and do anything. Just sayin!

Also I'm going to bump this thread after the 08 elections and say 'lol', just a heads up.

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I sleep pretty good at night, with my M-16 by my side. Historically, the first thing a dictator or socialist government does is to disarm the public, so they can't fight back. <cough Canada, Mexico, Britain, Australia> When the men in black bust my door down and carry me out in a body bag, then I'll worry, oh maybe I won't. It's not gonna happen any time soon.

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Erp said:

I sleep pretty good at night, with my M-16 by my side. Historically, the first thing a dictator or socialist government does is to disarm the public, so they can't fight back.

...unless they brainwash the general public, then the government has a fifth column in case of a rebellion. Don't feel bad though, you alone with your little 5.56mm plastic rifle wouldn't have done much anyways.

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Erp said:
I sleep pretty good at night, with my M-16 by my side. Historically, the first thing a dictator or socialist government does is to disarm the public, so they can't fight back.


Hahaha! Comedy gold. A "socialist" government... LOL. You probably don't even know what that is, since you guys think that anything not agreeing with your two ultraright parties stands on equal footing with being communist.

Let me explain what I think is wrong with the USA democracy at the moment:

Firstly, there's a total lack of a healthy political spectrum. You have the Democrats, which are a far-right party. And you have the Republicans, which are a ultra-right party. There's a distinct lack of viable other choices. There's no middle, no left. And with two parties so closely related in views, it was just a matter of time before their ideology turns stale and stagnant.

The election system is flawed or at least outdated. Federal government is not elected by popular vote, but by a "winner takes all" system per state. A desert with 10 rednecks can outvote an economical powerhouse state with a few million people. This was nice when each state pretty much minded its own business, but federal government in this age has way way more power over the states to allow this to continue.

Presidential candidates are bought by business. They provide the money needed to make a candidency succeed. Hello corruption.

Decades of being in a state-of-war with the Sovjets, with proxy wars being fought regulary, has skewed the view of generations. It used to be "us" versus "the commies", and this black & white mentality still persist today. The military industry/complex is bloated and puts a distinct mark on society. Alternative viewpoints are regarded hostile; thinking outside-the-box not encouraged.

The press and other media is in the hands of a few big media tycoons, their political views dictating the news. Hardly independant, much less objective.

And of course: the massive, massive indifference of the Americans themselves, who hardly bother to turn up to vote. Nationalistic flagwaving as a lullaby for a highly persistent sheep mentality. Maybe discontent with their government when asked, but meekly accepting it anyway because the "american way can't turn wrong".

Neocons. Seeing them push their agenda, while axing many foundations of a free society. Their worldview has so many parallels to fascism, it's scary.

A Democracy is not something you install once and then everything turns out ok afterwards. Democracy is an ongoing process, and requires continuous input from its residents. That means, you.

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Erp said:

I sleep pretty good at night, with my M-16 by my side.

Statements like that crystalize why so much of the world just shakes its head at Americans, and why Americans never seem to understand why the rest of the world is doing it.

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Enjay said:

Statements like that crystalize why so much of the world just shakes its head at Americans, and why Americans never seem to understand why the rest of the world is doing it.


Pfft. Americans don't care what other countries think of our social policies, they are ours, we fought and died for our independence. Shake your head till your neck breaks for all I care. There are certainly an awful lot(and I mean that in 2 different ways) of people wanting to move here, they enjoy the milk and honey, get fat and rich.

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Well then... where are the best countries to live? I guess that I may need to move very, very, soon...

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Shees, discussing politics or religion on DW is never a good idea, I should know better by now. Let it go.

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It's sad that people who live halfway across the globe, who've probably never been to America, know more about our politics than most of the people I know who have lived here their entire lives.

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Wow mordeth, you talk big there, but you forget a couple of points. One being that there are a number of americans on here who are still too young to vote, so let's not go blaming everyone who posts here on bad healthcare and media conglomerates. Secondly, just about every country has its issues as it "grows up"; america is still very young, unlike your region, and while I don't lay that as an excuse, it's something you should keep in mind as you blast your overgeneralized bullshit.

Using this thread as a soapbox for your issues with my government will get you nowhere, but that's usually the case around this here internet. When your country starts having problems, as it already slowly is, I'll be sure to come back and remind you of it.

And in closing, if you think that you've described every american, you're WAY off. There ARE things going on here, people ARE trying to make changes, but it takes time. You wouldn't know about them of course, as your media won't broadcast our smaller local concerns. America is a big country, it's harder to manage. Maybe if we were the size of your country it would be a bit easier.

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Erp said:

Pfft. Americans don't care what other countries think of our social policies, they are ours, we fought and died for our independence.

Heh, and that's an even better one. Well done. Classic stuff.

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