Recent Executive Orders confirm US now a dictatorship

[Enjay]

Bank said:

Fuck the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooarT3cn8_o

[Mordeth]

Mancubus II said:
Using this thread as a soapbox for your issues with my government will get you nowhere

No offence, but a typical reaction. Criticism on the beloved USA? Unheard of! We weird foreign guys must "hate us for our freedoms"..?

Just to stress the blatantly obvious: I don't think badly of any American here. But it seems to me that the general american public needs to be exposed to a bit more criticism, and stop wallowing under that warm comfortable blanket of misplaced nationalistic pride.

Democracy needs constant input, constant scrutiny. When a generation stops questioning authority, you will lose one of the cornerstones of democracy itself.

The points I brought up are valid. Munch them over, try and look at questions raised without dismissing it right out of hand because it doesn't stroke with whatever worldview you've been raised.

[Sharessa]

Manc does also have a point. You seem to have a slightly skewed vision of America, lumping everyone into one group instead of the very polarised place it is. Our country is divided mainly into two camps... On one side, you have teh SUPAR PATRIOTS who think America can do no wrong and they'll lead us all into the revelation or whatever, or at least allow us to kill some darkies.

The majority, however, is from the second camp who think the government has gone either corrupt or inept, and have little faith in it. A lot of the more free-thinking people are in this category, but sadly a lot of the people in this category have also lost so much faith in the government that they've gone apathetic and have stopped voting, thus the low voter turnout. The current administration seems to play on this, trying to disenfranchise everyone who isn't easily lead, thus gaining a margin needed to get their guys in. They don't actually have the interest of the SUPAR PATRIOTS in mind, they even get these people to believe whatever they say. But I think we've all heard enough of that...

The truth of the matter is, if you lived here, you'd understand that these thick-skulled examples of white trash you see on the TV all the time aren't the majority. There are actually many people, periodicals, and even some TV programmes that do question the government fairly often. Hell, the news does it all the time (but usually in a very dumbed-down way).

Unfortunately, the intelligent people in this country have been disenfranchised and many have thrown up their hands thinking they are the minority. So for all of you out there that dislike the government yet refuse to vote, get your heads out of your asses and get to the polls on at least the big election days. If Thomas Jefferson saw you whining and hiding, he's shit his pants. Is that what you want, a shitting TJ? When the Brits decided to tax the fuck out of us, did our founding fathers just throw up their hands and go "fuck it"? No, they got up off their asses and CHANGED THINGS. Think about that, fellow Americans.

[myk]

Danarchy said:
The majority, however, is from the second camp who think the government has gone either corrupt or inept, and have little faith in it. A lot of the more free-thinking people are in this category, but sadly a lot of the people in this category have also lost so much faith in the government that they've gone apathetic and have stopped voting, thus the low voter turnout.

That's exactly what Mordeth is saying people should not resort to; faith. Governments are not benign, but merely an accumulation of power in society. You classified one group as diehard partisans, when while there certainly are some of those, others join that parade (which in itself is to a large degree kind of ironic or hypocritical) out of interest or circumstance (considering what affects them more or less immediately), and you equated the latter with anti-government, but the main way you can make social circumstances improve, other than in the small ways that can't really be measured in terms of politics, is through the "public sphere", either through governance or by affecting it. If government, or power, seems alien or wrong, it must be tamed by (public) action. Saying that the goverment is essentially wrongful or too imperfect is merely and admittance of defeat.

[Mordeth]

Danarchy said:
Manc does also have a point. You seem to have a slightly skewed vision of America, lumping everyone into one group instead of the very polarised place it is.

I don't recall lumping people into one group here. The points I made were:

1) Total lack of a healthy political spectrum
2) The election system is flawed or at least outdated
3) Presidential candidates are bought by business
4) Decades of being in a state-of-war (...), has skewed the view of generations. (...) Alternative viewpoints are regarded hostile; thinking outside-the-box not encouraged.
5) The press and other media is in the hands of a few big media tycoons
6) the massive, massive indifference of the general American public
7) Neocons

Oh, and sneering at a "I sleep pretty good at night, with my M-16 by my side" remark. Again: LOL.

[BoldEnglishman]

Danarchy said:

When the Brits decided to tax the fuck out of us, did our founding fathers just throw up their hands and go "fuck it"?

Now we brits ourselves are getting tax-raped by our own government :(

[fodders]

Most of the world knows what America is like because Jerry Springer is shown around the world :)
On a serious note:
http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2006/02/kbrhalliburton.html

February 4, 2006, NY Times
Halliburton Subsidiary Gets Contract to Add Temporary Immigration Detention Centers
By RACHEL L. SWARNS
WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 — The Army Corps of Engineers has awarded a contract worth up to $385 million for building temporary immigration detention centers to Kellogg Brown & Root, the Halliburton subsidiary that has been criticized for overcharging the Pentagon for its work in Iraq.
KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space, company executives said. KBR, which announced the contract last month, had a similar contract with immigration agencies from 2000 to last year.

[Csonicgo]

Why the fuck is halliburton dealing with detention centers? Makes no sense at all.



EDIT: oh ok, reading the article rather than the snippet it makes more sense to me.

[Quast]

Snarboo said:

The 5th amendment protects individuals from having things seized from them without due process by the government.

The 5th amendment doesn't provide anything. For years, people have had property and personal effects seized without due process, without a trial, without being arrested or being charged with a crime.

[Nightmare Doom]

Csonicgo said:

Why the fuck is halliburton dealing with detention centers? Makes no sense at all.



EDIT: oh ok, reading the article rather than the snippet it makes more sense to me.

Did you know that Dick Cheney happens to be the president of Halliburton?

[fodders]

WAS, don't think he is now, but if I remember right he does receive money still

[Maes]

Well, having a democratically elected government is not an assurance on the actual method or ideology of government: most constitutions permit the election of a candidate whose ideology or agenda is hostile or essentially contrary to democracy and its principles.

In theory, even an openly declared tyrant or monarchist could be legally and regularly elected, as no article in the constitution clearly states that a candidate must endorse democratic principles or ensure their continuity after their eventual election.

Plus, for the 4 or 5 years most democratically elected governments serve their term, they have near-absolute power, and there's very little to prevent them from abusing it. E.g. the U.S. president can single-handedly reject a Congress decision, thus having dictatorial/monarchical powers by definition.

There are also a lot of hidden flaws here and there: e.g. the U.S. must be the only country where, during the electoral period, the governing party doesn't resign but has instead full powers and full access to public funds for its electoral campaign. In most other countries, the governing party resigns and a "technical government" takes over until the elections are over.

[Patrick]

as long as the government is taking 30% of my paycheck, then i don't support current policy

[Patrick]

Mordeth said:

PS: I see some people claiming that a militia will be formed to deal with a dictator..? Like, LOL. You people can't even be bothered to turn up to VOTE. This indifference has been the main cause it's come this far in the first place.

anyone wanna help me make a militia?

[Mindless Rambler]

Sure, you can be target practice.

-edit-
Typo.

[Patrick]

Mindless Rambler said:

Sure, you can be target prcatice.

damnit, that's what happened last time ...

[Quasar]

So they're building the camps already. This is quite a bit further along than most people realize.

[Maes]

Janitor said:

anyone wanna help me make a militia?

These "militias" usually end up in being little more than hunter clubs with some Males shooting bottles and trees and thinking they are tough :-)

[Csonicgo]

Quasar said:

So they're building the camps already. This is quite a bit further along than most people realize.

[Patrick]

Maes said:

These "militias" usually end up in being little more than hunter clubs with some Males shooting bottles and trees and thinking they are tough :-)

sadly enough that is very true. the problem is mainly the massive indifference of the American population. to most Americans it's "someone else's problem." We let this happen in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GPHiMVRuKY

[The Lag]

2 camps of americans? the patriots and the liberals? lol.
way to oversimplify things.

i also wanted to just post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkBMjKwVkEs

[Grimm]

Ha. I know a few people who slept with guns at their side. Not a big deal.

Listen, I hate the US, but even I think you guys are spouting a bit too much bullshit. Mayhap you should worry your own politics and issues in stead of the US. (Like say, the Moslem problem. Oops, did I just say that?) Though I'll admit, I can understand why you might be worried about the US. Scares ME sometimes, and I live here.

Really though, I just wanted to express my shock at how this place is exactly the same. I opened up the first thread I saw, and lo, the same old crap. Don't you guys ever get tired of this bullshit?

It was nice to see a lot of the people I actually LIKED at Doomworld still around and kicking though.

But I really don't even know why I bothered posting. I'm working on going through the archives again, if anyone cares. You probably won't see me for awhile

[BoldEnglishman]

Well this is the Everything Else section... I guess it's always full of bullshit :S

[fodders]

Talking to most people you got to distance yaself, no-on I know hates Americans, they see and hate the policies of your government, we see it why dont you?

[Bloodshedder]

Most of us do.

[Gokuma]

http://prisonplanet.com/
http://www.GNN.tv
http://www.taytv.com/

[Quasar]

Csonicgo said:

(Picture of element symbol for tin)

The only question I have is, how far DOES the government have to go before people have a problem with it? At the beginning of every oppressive regime the public doubts the true extent of corruption and power. I hate to drag WWII into it, but it proves a point. A large number of people living in Germany at the time of Hitler's rise to power considered him to be a harmless windbag. He would be in power for a couple of years, maybe help the economy recover, and then he and his goons would be relegated to the history books.

Obviously this is not what happened.

And it is educational to see how exactly things began to turn different. It started with the "Emergency Enabling Acts", which suspended most of the Weimar Constitution, including pretty much all civil rights protections. In the event of an "emergency", the constitution would become null and void and all power would be held by the Chancellor. Naturally, Germany was soon placed under a perpetual state of emergency.

Also, significant changes were made to the branches of government. For example, the position of President, which was responsible for the appointment of Chancellors, was first marginalized, and then eliminated entirely. The Reichstag was also eventually marginalized, and then one night was burned down by the Nazis after they failed to gain the majority in the last free election. Though it would be replaced, it would become simply a group of "yes men" to rubber stamp Hitler's policies.

How many of these things do we see happening now? Have "enabling acts" been created? Yes. Have civil rights been sacrificed in general and will they be suspended entirely in the event of "emergencies"? Yes. Are unprecedented and unconstitutional changes being made to the structure of government? Yes. Has the congress become a group of "yes men" for the President? Not quite yet. It was for a time, but the Democrats have now decided to offer at least token resistance to the Neocon agenda, probably only so far as it suits their own bid to be the ones in control of the new empire. If the upcoming elections are compromised or postponed, it will effectively be the American equivalent of the burning of the Reichstag.

You can continue to ignore these signs which have been repeated through the course of history many times, or you can look at things with intelligence and forethought and see the direction they lead in. Denying that there's a problem is just an attempt to live in a dream world IMO.

[Nightmare Doom]

I can see resemblance between the events of WWII and the 21st century....


If America is Nazi Germany then I have to say that Israel is Benito Mussolini's Fascist regime, the E.U. (especially Gordon Brown/Tony Blair's regime in the UK) is Stalinist Soviet Union and the rest the pro-american/imperialist countries (Albania, Japan, etc) is America's Axis powers, while Iraq was Poland and Iran is now France....As for the rest of the countries like North Korea, Russia, China, Valenzuela, Cuba, etc are either the neutral countries during WWII or 'isolationist' America during the 1930s or the early 1940s or the new 'allies' against America's imperialist powers....

[Mordeth]

Nightmare Doom, don't quit school just yet.