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hardcore_gamer

What sound format takes the least space? (PSX music!)

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What sound format takes the least space? I have mp3 versions of the PSX Doom music and i want to make a wad out of it that replaces all of the music in Doom 1 and 2. But Mp3 format is BIG! I can't convert them to midis. I have tryed other formats but all of them take there toll of
4-5 MB each song! Any help?

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Again, the question arises of what port you're using?

Midis are always the best bet if you're looking to save space, and of course you can't convert to midi. Either arrange it yourself of find someone to do it for you.

I'd only suggest mp3s if you're looking for short repeating ambient tracks, otherwise you get the dreaded 200mb shit wads that fill /idgames which are merely SLIGE levels with unconnected pirated mp3s in a folder.

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Bank said:

otherwise you get the dreaded 200mb shit wads that fill /idgames which are merely SLIGE levels with unconnected pirated mp3s in a folder.


I am not making any levels, it's just the music from PSX Doom.

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Again- Port matters.

And if you're just making a music pack, large file size is a little unavoidable unless you use midi.

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Bank said:

Again- Port matters.

And if you're just making a music pack, large file size is a little unavoidable unless you use midi.


I am just making a music pack. And i will probably go with zdoom as it supports most all sound formats.

EDIT: YES!!! Turns out that by using windows movie maker i can save just
the music with no video clips in file sizes under 1 mb WITHOUT harming the quilaty. The file size should not be that big now.

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hardcore_gamer said:

EDIT: YES!!! Turns out that by using windows movie maker i can save just the music with no video clips in file sizes under 1 mb WITHOUT harming the quilaty. The file size should not be that big now.


Most audiophiles, either real or self-proclaimed ones would probably go ganstah on yo ass for having said that, but let's overlook it...

Just ask yourself two questions: how long does the music you want pack last, in terms of absolute time? 30 minutes? 60 minutes? Once you fixed that, decide what's an acceptable size for a certain duration. From this basic relationship, you can find out the bitrate you need.

I don't want to start a flamewar about bit rates and compressed audio formats, but for stereo music and FM/near CD quality there's no format that can perform really well under 64 kbps (especially for stereo music), be it MP3, OGG or WMA. So regard 64 kbps as a lower limit...that means about 480 KB per minute of audio, or 28.8 MB for an hour-long soundtrack.

Not too horribly big. After all, Absolution's music packs come in a "small" 30 MB lo-quality and a "big" 60 MB hi-quality MP3 pack, at 64 and 128 kbps accordingly.

What you've been achieving with Movie Maker is basically an asf/wma extraction of the audio, probably at 64 kbps or less, plus you have little to no control over encoding time (you can obtain significantly better results at lower bitrates if you trade in longer encoding times).

I'd suggest to use a proper MP3/OGG encoding frontend tool such as CDex which allows you to easily set up bitrates AND encoding quality, and use that to do your conversion. Avoid WMA at all costs, as it's totally inferior to both OGG and properly encoded MP3.

Oh, and...

[CaptainObvious]You cannot distribute a music pack with the PSX music without permission, because it is copyrighted. You can only keep such a music pack for personal use.[/CaptainObvious]

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These either have permission (or so is presumed) or are released under the -somewhat wishful- assumption that the games are abandonware, or that no real harm is done to the legitimate distributors of the game. In any case, it's a legal "grey zone", and the idgames/ archive would probably not accept them in their current form.

Also, notice that in the case of classic Doom music, only sound recordings made through a particular soundcard/MIDI engine are distributed . Thus, what is distributed is an interpretation of Doom's music and not the actual sound data (those would be the original .MUS files, which ARE illegal to distribute).

In the case of the PSX however, the tracks are already in CD-audio format, so converting them to a compressed audio format equates directly pirating them.

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Maes said:

In the case of the PSX however, the tracks are already in CD-audio format, so converting them to a compressed audio format equates directly pirating them.


The Doom 3DO music on doom depot seems to be ripped (probably since it sais: (ripped by cybdmn) ) but i that won't matter will it :(

Still, i noticed in the idgames/ archive there were plenty of music tracks, including MIDI versions of Korn songs that made it trough. Even if doing this is......working on a gray area i don't really think anyone
will care.

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Well, especially MIDIs are the very definition of a "gray area" for what regards copyright. They have been available since the birth of the internet (and many MIDI sites date back to the mid 90s), but nobody seems to give a shit about them.

They are still the most popular music format you can directly download without resorting to P2P or file sharing, and all those years I've never heard of a major lawsuit (or any lawsuit at all) vs sites with MIDI files (while MP3 is much more persecuted).

OK, now there has been some respawned commercial interest in MIDIs due to all that "ringtone" business, and thus for the first time free-download sites are operating along pay-per-download sites without any major controversy (imagine that happening with MP3s, for instance!)

Back to the point...I guess you could release your pack on the same grounds of tolerance/indifference the other musics were released. You'll just perpetuate an established practice.

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Bloodshedder said:

Sanctioned by Bobby Prince. Notice that his comments> are attached to some of the songs?


I think that falls into the "interpretation" or "cover" category. E.g. putting up the various interpretations/remakes of Doom's music for download is "OK", whether it is sanctioned by Bobby Prince or not, from what I grasped. On the other hand, putting Bobby Prince's "official" Doom music CD on P2P or on The Pirate Bay would not be "OK".

I'm not exactly an attorney specialized in music matters, but from what I grasped there are some slightly different rules applying to distributing the actual musical sheet, the recorded material and the various covers of a particular piece of music.

E.g. are the various remixes of Doom's music, such as those at OcRemix, sanctioned by anybody? Or do they fall under the "fair use" or whatever principles and rules dominate musical covers/performances/interpretations?

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I meant that the only pages sanctioned by Prince are the ones about the regular Doom and Doom 2 music - not the remix page.

Remixes themselves are in a legal gray area, but considering that no company (that I know of) has ever pursued anyone for creating/distributing remixes, they are freely available - much like MIDIs.

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