Barrel triggering

[Creaphis]

I recently found the classic Barrel2.wad, where the wad author exploits a trick that I didn't know existed. Barrels are actually used in this map to lower lifts as they cross triggers (usually while exploding). This made me begin to imagine many ways that you could exploit this bug/feature in a vanilla map (without making it into a tacky puzzle wad) but now those plans have been derailed. I've only tested a handful of actions, but so far, it seems that the only linedef actions that a barrel can trigger are 10 and 88 (slow lifts) and the teleports.

If there are any experts on this subject reading this, are there any other Vanilla linedef types that can be triggered by a barrel (or monster) crossing it?

[the iron hitman]

Are you using a vanilla port? Or a more advanced port like zdoom? AFAIK I think the best format for something like this would be doom in hexen format. Or alternitavely, you could place a line that will trigger the lift to come down and give the player enough time to get into it before all the barrels explode. But if you ask me, for something like this, I would use an advanced port. I hope this helps ;)

[esselfortium]

the iron hitman said:

Are you using a vanilla port? Or a more advanced port like zdoom? AFAIK I think the best format for something like this would be doom in hexen format. Or alternitavely, you could place a line that will trigger the lift to come down and give the player enough time to get into it before all the barrels explode. But if you ask me, for something like this, I would use an advanced port. I hope this helps ;)

"hey, how do i do this effect i saw in a vanilla wad?" "WELL YOU SHOULD PROBABLY USE ZDOOM IN HEXEN FORMAT FOR THAT"

Even beyond that, I'm pretty sure you completely missed the point of his question. He wants to use barrels to trigger the actions, not to trigger actions that affect barrels.

With that said, though, I don't know of any other linedefs that you can do this with. Sorry :(

[the iron hitman]

Yeah, but that's only what I said because I thought it might of helped. I didnt think it would miss the point :S sorry

[Creaphis]

Alright, thanks for the input. Esselfortium appears to know what I'm talking about, and if you don't know of any other linedefs that work, I won't bother testing.

I know I really should use a more advanced port if I want to map, but let me explain myself. I haven't finished a map before; in fact, it's only recently that I've started to feel like mapping at all. Originally, I figured that I should start with a vanilla map or two just so that I don't have to learn about more advanced ports and so forth already, but since then my feelings have changed slightly. Since I've been reading and learning about tricks possible in the Doom engine, I've wanted to make a map that makes experienced Doom players wonder "Now just how does that work?" I have some very good ideas, some of which I've never seen implemented - I just have to get around to actually building the darn thing.

[scwiba]

Creaphis said:

I know I really should use a more advanced port if I want to map...

No, you shouldn't. You should use whatever port you want to use.

Sometimes the less advanced ones can put limits on you that force you to think outside the box and come up with some really creative solutions and tricks that you never would have thought of otherwise.

[Dr. Zin]

Creaphis said:

I know I really should use a more advanced port if I want to map

No, some of the best maps being released even today are for Vanilla and Boom (which just adds some more line actions). Too many people use advanced port features as a crutch to hide weak mapping.

[RjY]

Creaphis said:
I've only tested a handful of actions, but so far, it seems that the only linedef actions that a barrel can trigger are 10 and 88 (slow lifts) and the teleports.

If there are any experts on this subject reading this, are there any other Vanilla linedef types that can be triggered by a barrel (or monster) crossing it?

Yes, there's type 4, W1 open door. It will of course close again and the line is only activateable once, but with a bit of cleverness it can be made to stay open (see Suspended in Dusk, for example)

[Creaphis]

RjY said:

Yes, there's type 4, W1 open door. It will of course close again and the line is only activateable once, but with a bit of cleverness it can be made to stay open (see Suspended in Dusk, for example)

Cool, thanks. And thanks for the other encouragement.

[fraggle]

These are the linedef types that can be triggered by non-players (ie. barrels can trigger them):

          case 39:      // TELEPORT TRIGGER
          case 97:      // TELEPORT RETRIGGER
          case 125:     // TELEPORT MONSTERONLY TRIGGER
          case 126:     // TELEPORT MONSTERONLY RETRIGGER
          case 4:       // RAISE DOOR
          case 10:      // PLAT DOWN-WAIT-UP-STAY TRIGGER
          case 88:      // PLAT DOWN-WAIT-UP-STAY RETRIGGER

Note that projectiles (rockets etc.) are not supposed to trigger these lines. However, only the following projectile types are checked for:

          case MT_ROCKET:
          case MT_PLASMA:
          case MT_BFG:
          case MT_TROOPSHOT:
          case MT_HEADSHOT:
          case MT_BRUISERSHOT:

This doesn't include some of the projectile types added later on (Doom II). So arachnotron plasma balls will (apparently) trigger lines, as well as mancubus fireballs and the Icon of Sin cubes.

EDIT: You can't teleport missiles, though.

[Creaphis]

fraggle said:

This doesn't include some of the projectile types added later on (Doom II). So arachnotron plasma balls will (apparently) trigger lines, as well as mancubus fireballs and the Icon of Sin cubes.

Interesting... I wonder how I could use that...

[Graf Zahl]

Creaphis said:

Interesting... I wonder how I could use that...

Better don't. Ports that generalize projectile behavior don't replicate this bug. That's at least ZDoom and all derivatives but some others may as well.

[Creaphis]

Graf Zahl said:

Better don't. Ports that generalize projectile behavior don't replicate this bug. That's at least ZDoom and all derivatives but some others may as well.

Rats. I already made plans for a lift that would drop in the icon of sin's forehead that would open up to let the cubes out.

Doesn't that sound cool?

[myk]

Creaphis said:
Rats. I already made plans for [...]

Don't worry about that. People make wads that don't work on some engines all the time. Just note it in the text file what you know it may not work properly with (there's a section in the template for that). If I'm not mistaken, ZDoom changes some properties of the Barrel's damage, so it may even ruin some "vanilla" effects if they are based on explosions and need a lot of precision.

[printz]

Creaphis said:

Rats. I already made plans for a lift that would drop in the icon of sin's forehead that would open up to let the cubes out.

Doesn't that sound cool?

Cubes have no-clipping behaviour, ignoring any W linedef-type they cross. Anyway, your description is yet unclear. An opening forehead, that's all, or is there more movement? "Lift dropping in IoS' forehead" sounds like a crash to me.

[Creaphis]

Yeah, never mind about the Icon of Sin thing, I just made a small test level and those cubes definitely don't trigger lines, so my idea can't be done in vanilla.

But I might as well explain what I was thinking anyway. Imagine that a monster spawner spawns a cube, and before the cube is visible, it triggers a line of type 88. This line would lower a small lift in the path of the cube itself, so that it could look like a small port in the demon's forehead is opening and closing to let the cube pass.