US Navy to Fix Swastiska Shaped Barracks after complaints

[ducon]

Pffff, should we rebuild all the cock-shaped or pokemon-shaped buildings?

[myk]

ducon said:
should we rebuild all the cock-shaped or pokemon-shaped buildings?

As far as I know, neither penises nor pokemons have initiated horrid wars of aggression or executed massive genocide. At least not directly.

[Snarboo]

Neither have swastikas. :p

[pritch]

I love it when a shape is elevated to the status of pariah.

[Technician]

myk said:

As far as I know, neither penises nor pokemons have initiated horrid wars of aggression or executed massive genocide. At least not directly.

Ah, but to the Jews it never happened.

[Skeletor]

Interesting to see how the definition of a symbol is determined by its cultural context.

I'm Korean-American and I've been to Korea and China, and there are the swastika symbols here and there but not rotated as used by the Nazi's. A sign of good luck, not a symbol of the Nazi gov't.

[deathbringer]

It's also all over the place in India. A recent TV show had the Diwali celebrations in 2007, and business owners where painting swastikas on thier books for the new year, to bring them prosperity

[SulfurOccult]

I don't think the swastika is a ruined symbol anymore than the crucifix is. the logic for a swastika being bad is that atrocities and genocide were committed under its banner, correct? well even more death and bloodshed has been witnessed under the banners of Christ, added up over the centuries, so why isn't it looked at with the same abhorrence?

people need to not have such a knee-jerk reaction to something as simple as a symbol - especially one as universal as the swastika. realize that a single symbol has different meanings depending on its context.

that meaning in the context of a US naval base? probably nothing.

[myk]

MasterOfPuppets said:
people need to not have such a knee-jerk reaction to something as simple as a symbol

Yeah, I know what you mean. I knew this guy that every time something with a bad reputation was brought up he'd start ranting against the cross, saying it's even worse.

that meaning in the context of a US naval base? probably nothing.

Maybe if it had been built before the 1940s, but for a newer building the association is inevitable, especially for a military building (keeping in mind Nazism is understood mainly as a form of "fascism", or political militarism). Regardless of whether reactions to the symbol are to be considered fully rational or understandable, giving such a building that shape shows a definite lack of tact nowadays (in the west).

[Patrick]

Danarchy said:

Yeah, but when will they fix the Denver International Airport?

(Map)

what? i see DIA once or twice a week, what wrong with it? (aside from wasted millions in the airport train system)

[Technician]

myk said:

Maybe if it had been built before the 1940s, but for a newer building the association is inevitable, especially for a military building (keeping in mind Nazism is understood mainly as a form of "fascism", or political militarism).

That’s pretty much it. Like my avatar suggests I occasionally wear and old USSR badge on my hat and usually only have a few comments, and I see this symbol often on t-shirts. Why am I mentioning this? Well the USSR out lasted the Nazi party ten fold not to mention it lasted a better part of the century longer. It was just as "purist" as the Nazi’s was and over the century it's genocide also killed huge amounts of civilians and probably has generated much, much more propaganda the home from ever did for WW2.

Example Wal-Mart currently has cute shirts with the hammer and sickle that have phrases like back in the USSR and the likes, but at the same time had shipments of shirts with the Death Head and the public went bonkers. There are two things that remain today that still get people on the fence preaching the book: Nazi symbolism and early racial stereotypes. I don't support walking around wearing Nazi symbols but my point still stands


And for the shirt http://consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-apologizes-for-selling-nazi-tshirts-213963.php

[Jello]

The swastika design for buildings is very common, and useful. It maximizes the useable space in a square block, but gives every office an open window to look out. It also gives them all a courtyard to look out at and gather in, noone is boxed in, yet all the space is utilized. It's a very common building technique. This is why the navy used it, to maximize the amount that they could build in, and yet still keep their employees content with being able to actually look at, and gather in the outside world. I used to live by a retirement home with the same design. It was made that way so that no matter where you were in the building you could always look outside.

As for the Swastika, yes it is a centuries old symbol with many different meanings. However, the Nazi's did spoil it to a degree, and using it blatantly if you're not an observer of Hinduism or Buddhishm, or any other religion that holds the Swastika sacred, does imply racism. And I don't really think this can be debated. If you're a member of a religion that finds the swastika to be a symbol of good luck, then that's fine. If you're just some pissed off white guy with an ax to grind, and you plaster the swastika all over, you're simply using it as shock value in reference to the nazis. There's a big difference in how it's used, and the people that use it realize the difference. Hindu's have it all over (reversed from the Nazi's swastika) because it's a symbol of good luck. Neo-nazis and other fascists plaster it all over because it incites people, and makes them pay attention to them. "Any press is good press." Building designers use the "swastika" design because honestly it's the most effecient design as far as establishing a balance between using as much space as possible, and yet not boxing anyone in completely. It's a non issue, and it does not need to be fixed. It's not an homage to Hitler, it's a building design.

[deathbringer]

Actually i think the symbol of the Polish air force would more efficiently use a square space, though you'd have four "indoor" courtyards which might be claustrophobic, rather than ones that open to the open air.

Hmm, last night i dreamed i was a superhero and was flying near one of the colleges in Cambridge and noticed a swastika-shaped building below me tucked away around some backstreets, and was annoyed i had forgotten my camera

[myk]

Jello said:
Building designers use the "swastika" design because honestly it's the most effecient design as far as establishing a balance between using as much space as possible, and yet not boxing anyone in completely. It's a non issue, and it does not need to be fixed. It's not an homage to Hitler, it's a building design.

I doubt it's "the most efficient", since that depends on many factors, such as how you'll use the building, where you'll place it, and what you're going to construct it with. The thing with symbols is that they surpass intentionality, and in this case the Navy seems to prefer to modify the building rather than get bad publicity for it.

Technically the building in question isn't really a swastika, because there's a space between the four structures, though it looks as such at a glance from the air.

[SulfurOccult]

Jello said:

As for the Swastika, yes it is a centuries old symbol with many different meanings. However, the Nazi's did spoil it to a degree, and using it blatantly if you're not an observer of Hinduism or Buddhishm, or any other religion that holds the Swastika sacred, does imply racism. And I don't really think this can be debated. If you're a member of a religion that finds the swastika to be a symbol of good luck, then that's fine. If you're just some pissed off white guy with an ax to grind, and you plaster the swastika all over, you're simply using it as shock value in reference to the nazis.

ok, so if you saw me (a young white male) wearing a pendant like this:


what would you think? would you assume I was neo-Nazi jerkoff, or would you ask me about it to be sure? would most people?

[BoldEnglishman]

The fact that the arms of that symbol are curved and not straight instantly means its not a swastika. But it could be from that Thule religion (which if I recall correctly also considers Aryans as the master race).

[Quasar]

You might be confusing the Thule Society with Asatru. The Thule Society was a pre-Nazi secret society that believed in Aryan supremacy (though not necessarily anti-Semitism, especially early on) and the existence of the ancient island or continent of Thule, equivalent to Atlantis. Some of its members later became members of the Nazi party, although the Nazis later shut down the organization and all other secret societies. Thule could not really be considered a religion.

Asatru, on the other hand, is a neo-pagan Norse revivalism, and is a religion which takes literal belief in Germanic mythology. Racism and anti-Semitism are not officially condoned in Asatru, however due to its typically pagan lack of organization, some members and larger groups do espouse such beliefs. Asatru practitioners in general find association with white power and neo-Nazi groups to be highly irritating, however. These groups have co-opted the same symbolism, so it can be difficult to tell who is who just by looking. This has lead to unwarranted persecution of Asatru followers.

[BoldEnglishman]

Ok I meant the Thule Society, I guess religion was the wrong word to use. Besides I only know about the Thule Society from the game Bloodrayne, where you have to kill a High Priest who is supposed to be from that order... and I thought... Priest = Religion :S

[sargebaldy]

It was bad enough when UAC remodeled the Command Control building on Phobos.

[Quasar]

Hahaha that was good, Sarge. :)

[SulfurOccult]

Quasar said:

These groups have co-opted the same symbolism, so it can be difficult to tell who is who just by looking. This has lead to unwarranted persecution of Asatru followers.

exactly the point I was alluding to earlier.

[Sharessa]

<3 German gods, especially Woden.

[VileSlay]

it's the folkish groups in asatru that attract the racists. the folkish believe that they are descended from the aesir and are the only ones that should pratice that religion. I'm a universalist asatruar and get kinda irked by the folkish lot. some of what they say concerning ancestral pride sounds borderline racist, but it is just pride, not a sense of superiority, and thats where the racists twist what asatru is.

[SulfurOccult]

I see nothing wrong with innocent pride in ones heritage, but it is true that some take it into a racist extreme. personally, I think nearly all pagan religions and ancient Hebrew monotheism (before it got clouded and hijacked) all descent from a single, extremely ancient tradition.

so my beliefs leave no room for ideas of racial superiority. I've been accused of being racist because of my disdain for hip-hop music and "gangsta culture." silly, isn't it?

[Quasar]

You don't have to be racist to dislike the urban "hip hop" culture with its machoism, misogyny, anarchy, extreme materialism, and inverted aesthetics.

[GooberMan]

If only Americans knew the history of their own infantry units...

[myk]

GooberMan said:
If only Americans knew the history of their own infantry units...

Interesting. Although it's clear the swastika can have many meanings, and that indian usage may have influenced the building:

• The building belongs to the Navy in California, not that particular Infantry division
  
• The Infantry itself changed the division's patch before the Nazis came about
  
• The building was built about a score years after the second world war

EDIT: It seems the shoulder patch was abandoned precisely because of the Nazis... even long before they did any of their meanest things.