My new project "The Lost World"

[Beth]

The Lost World is a project I started about a month ago and I've been working on it quite alot.

It is a 11 level replacement for Plutonia and runs with Zdoom.

The story isn't finished yet so I wont really say anything about that just yet.

My last project titled FATE for Doom II was way back in late 2005 and was VERY bland.

I am going to throw it in with TLW as kind of a bonus wad.

Anyway, The Lost World has 10 main levels and one secret.

It has replaced sounds music and menu graphics.

I made alot of areas seem 3D (Duke 3d style) and it is a very dark and creepy wad.

After Fate in 2005 I spent most of 2006 learning Doombuilder and starting and scrapping different projects.

In August of this year I finally settled with The Lost World.

A few things you can look forword to doing is going into Temples, graveyards Catacombs and haunted houses.

There aren't any replaced monsters or weapons...but hey! Its only my 2nd wadfile!

There will be three parts and it will all add up to a full sized wadfile when its done.

I plan on having this part done by late late 2007 or fairly early 2008.

Here are some links to screenshots!

Go ahead and tell me what you think so far!










If I posted these in the wrong code. Please let me know and I'll be happy to change them!












NOTE: For some shots that look WAY to bright. Its only that way because I turned up the brightness so the darker levels wouldn't look so dark.

[hawkwind]

Looks good. And another map for Plutonia to boot. Way too few pwads for Final Doom.

You say runs with Zdoom. Do you mean there will be things like scripting, ACS, decorate etc. or will it run on other "Limit Removing" ports ?

[Beth]

I have had people test it on things like Doomsday and Risen 3D and it will refuse to run.

Zdoom only runs it because this has been set up with codes that only Zdoom reads.

There are those bridge things that you see in the last shot and yes there are scripts.

It doesn't use all the things that Zdoom could use..yet..I'm still new to mapping as this is only my 2nd project.

I plan on having water you can swim in for TLW part two and then ramps and water along with better 3D tricks in the 3rd part.

That way I kind of hand it out one at a time.

Anyway...logic answer. Yes. It runs with Zdoom and only Zdoom so far :)


Thanks for posting by the way!

[printz]

I really really really like the stone cathedral picture.

[Vegeta]

Beth said:

For some shots that look WAY to bright. Its only that way because I turned up the brightness so the darker levels wouldn't look so dark.

I was going to say the shot look too dark. I suggest to add more light variation, some light sources here and there, and incress the overall light level, or at least not keep all the maps dark. The player is not going to be scared for a low light level, just hurt in the eyes. Also dark doesn't necessary means atmospheric, specially not when the sky is a white earthy sky. There's nothing wrong with dark areas (DOOM 2 map29 , thy flesh consumed), as far as they're used carefully. Well that's my opinion.

[Beth]

Thanks for the tip!

And don't worry, not all the maps are as dark as the graveyard level.

Most underground places are a fair brightness because of all the torches.

I really like tips so if anyone else has any just spit them out!

I'll post new shots soon!

[ReX]

The comment on the screenshots being too dark has already been made, but it bears repeating. In 3 of the 4 pictures it's difficult to see the details of each area or comment on them.

I too liked the tall columns in the cathedral-like area. But perhaps you could use a tall (i.e, 256-unit, 384-unit, or even a 512-unit) texture for the columns, so that the pattern does not repeat so often.

If you are indeed going for a cathedral effect perhaps you can use stained glass on the windows, decorate the rear wall with some inset crosses (perhaps one large one in the center and a couple of smaller ones, one on either side of the large one). Use a contrasting color (dark brown, black, or deep red) so that they will stand out against the grey wall.

In the same area (cathedral), I could not tell from the angle of the picture, but there seems to be only one window visible. Perhaps you can add more windows, and some ledges below the windows.

[Beth]

I am thinking of leaving the pillers as is but I'll put some things on the back wall like you suggest.

And there are windows all along the wall, it just isn't visable in the shot.

And of course the game appears brighter well playing it then it does in a solid picture, as strange as that may sound.

Thanks again for the tips and I'll add some things on that back wall without making the map lag too much.


EDIT


I decided to cancel the stained glass window thing because another member of the project pitched a fit saying that the windows looked more original for an open temple.

I will add some new things to the back wall though and see what comes out.


UPDATE


Here are some new shots.

I did turn the brightness up for the shots but I also did make the dark levels a little brighter.

Enjoy!

[Stealthy Ivan]

Very very large rooms, whats with that? It also could use a bit more detail, other than that, the theme is cool!

[hawkwind]

It appears that the imps are either suspended in air or hanging over the bridge. Using the linedef flag "block monster" might help.

[daimonreloaded]

doesn't look really bad imho, expeccialy the third screenshot in you first post.

[zap610]

It looks very empty and boring to me. It doesen't need 4k sectors, but adding reasonable detail can't hurt.

[printz]

Exactly, the second picture from the second batch looks very wide and easy for the marine to manage. Maybe you can put a Spiderdemon there, then. Spiderdemons and wide areas which aren't really too wide == kill.

[Dutch Doomer]

Meh I don't dig those cathedral shots the rooms are humongous I like the other shots alot better.

[Beth]

My mapping has aways been inspired by Blood and Quake.

If it seems bland and boring then you don't have to play it.

And the few big areas in the levels I shot are all part of the wadfiles story.

Those of you who do like the looks of it will enjoy it when it is finished I hope.


UPDATE: I added block monster on the bridge to fix the problem :)


I've put all kinds of work into this wadfile (keep in mind it is only my second try) so those who see this and don't think they like it then it is just my mapping style.

And the Temple shot is really the only big level open level.
And it isn't as easy to blast through as it may look.

[Stealthy Ivan]

New mappers are always welcome here, and constructive criticism can be a bit harsh at times. These people here at DW are a really good knowledge base and will help you advance as a mapper. The advise is take it or leave it so work at your own pace and do not give up!

[Beth]

No worries. I take things said the right way (I hope)

I just thought I'd explain why these maps may seem rather bland.

Alot of people didn't much like the shots either.

They did like the levels when they played through them though.

I do hope to becoming a better mapper as time goes on.

I just don't push myself to hard, I take things one step at a time and try and learn new things as I figure other things out.

Thanks again for the tips and all.

Keep in mind that I like totally stink at taking good screen shots..lol

[Dutch Doomer]

I always push myself very hard to do better, the screenshots look fine to me so imo you don't stink at making them :p

Keep mapping play other maps or other games or whatever else you can use an an source of inspiration, drawing maps on paper is something I often do just an very simple drawing I try to come up with an interesting layout with drawing.

[ReX]

Beth said:

I just thought I'd explain why these maps may seem rather bland....Alot of people didn't much like the shots either....They did like the levels when they played through them though.

1. Large, open areas are difficult to work with, and require quite a bit of effort to prevent them from looking bland. Top that off with areas having very high ceilings and the problem gets multiplied.
2. Looks aren't everything in a map, but it seems to be the main thing while an author is promoting the map. Therefore, when posting screenshots you're more likely to inspire enthusiasm for your map if you pick areas that are visually appealing.
3. Remember that interesting and challenging gameplay is at least as important (if not more important) than the look of a map. Still, it doesn't hurt to pay as much attention to one as to the other.
4. Another aspect of a map that adds to the quality of the gameplay experience is map design and layout. [Your pictures indicate that you have incorporated some of these elements, but I'm just reiterating these points.] Some things to consider are variations in height, indoor as well as outdoor areas, appropriate lighting, windows that reveal areas the player may only get to visit later, secret areas that are visible but challenge the player to discover the entry point, selective use of back-tracking, and alternative paths to an objective.

[Beth]

The thing you posted about the windows and secrets are there, in later levels of course.

There are even windows where you can see a part of the level you were in before it as all the levels take place right after the last one ended.

So I think I've got that part all in it. And the castle level has alot of detail but I am also trying to add some sort of real life feel to these maps.

Imagian walking into a castle dungeon and seeing it look like a show case for ancient carvings...not like a dungeon at all imho.

A dungeon to me is stone hallways with cages and interesting traps with stuff hanging from the celing.

So I am trying to add at least some sort of detail but trying to stick to more of the detail of Quake.

Thanks again for the tips and I'll see what I can make of them :)

[Stealthy Ivan]

Beth said:

So I am trying to add at least some sort of detail but trying to stick to more of the detail of Quake.

So far your maps are nowhere near quake so what ever detail you are talking about to has yet to show itself.... If you want quake detail you better start busting your ass... :P

[YMB]

Those are some hiiiiiiiiiiiigh ceilings you've got there.

[fraggle]

When I saw the thread title I assumed this was going to be some horrible Jurassic Park TC.

[Beth]

How strange. Alot of people see the Quake in my maps.



EDIT: And half the maps are alot different. You can't tell how the whole level will be just by a few screen shots.

And Quake 1 didn't have all that much detail..I've played the damn thing through quite alot of times.

[Stealthy Ivan]

Ok, if you look through the archives of wads, there are plenty of maps with a very strong quake feel. Check them out and take some pointers from them. You have a good idea its just very alpha at the moment, take some time and learn, never hurry on a map or these sharks here will tear you apart.

[Beth]

I really do not see what is the matter with the details. Nobody has even played the wad yet.

They've seen a few screen shots. Thats all.

I have spent countless hours on disign and how the levels tie in with the story of the wad.

I have talked with plenty of other people and they didn't really point out that it was bland.

How detailed was Duke Nukem 3D's level 1?

I don't want to raise any bars in level detail.

I don't want it completely boring. I want to bring out real life and try and bring back some of the older games detail.

I'll post some shots of new levels and see what comes of it.

[printz]

ReX said:

1. Large, open areas are difficult to work with, and require quite a bit of effort to prevent them from looking bland. Top that off with areas having very high ceilings and the problem gets multiplied.

I don't mind bland looking large areas as long as they are challenging enough. They can be made tough by:
- populating them with hitscan and homing missile monsters (hitscanners including Archviles, Spiderdemons, zombies);
- flooding them with acid;
- setting up booby traps.
Actually, bland looking rooms which are heavily trapped are the better.

2. Looks aren't everything in a map, but it seems to be the main thing while an author is promoting the map. Therefore, when posting screenshots you're more likely to inspire enthusiasm for your map if you pick areas that are visually appealing.

Well some of these screenshots are good because they look varied to each other.

3. Remember that interesting and challenging gameplay is at least as important (if not more important) than the look of a map. Still, it doesn't hurt to pay as much attention to one as to the other.

I say gameplay is definitely more important, but detail has to be decent, so as not to make players leave Doom bored.

4. Another aspect of a map that adds to the quality of the gameplay experience is map design and layout. [Your pictures indicate that you have incorporated some of these elements, but I'm just reiterating these points.] Some things to consider are variations in height, indoor as well as outdoor areas, appropriate lighting, windows that reveal areas the player may only get to visit later, secret areas that are visible but challenge the player to discover the entry point, selective use of back-tracking, and alternative paths to an objective.

I like organic maps more, those made with less attention to realistic architecture and more to line-effect mechanisms, monster trickery and shock effect. Beth's screenshots do show potential for this (many things are possible in that "cathedral"), but we can only know it when the map is released, not from some pics.

[Beth]

Okay. I was in a rotten mood yesterday and I am sorry.

I am going to tell my editor to F off because I think I need to make these changes on my own wether he agrees or not.

Must be something about female mappers. We can't fix our own maps (Oh poppycock!)

Anyway, if i came off as grumpy in that last post I lend you my apologies.

Now to just...make this look right! lol

I'll see in a while when more of the harder levels are done I'll try and post shots of something that may catch as interesting.

[Ralphis]

Beth said:

Must be something about female mappers. We can't fix our own maps (Oh poppycock!)

Don't worry, we're used to it. Afterall, women can't do ANYTHING right.

[Use]

And now it begins