My new project "The Lost World"

[Beth]

Ralphis said:

Don't worry, we're used to it. Afterall, women can't do ANYTHING right.

What the bloody hell does that mean? Sorry but I am personally offended by that comment there.

[Marco]

Ralphis said:

Don't worry, we're used to it. Afterall, women can't do ANYTHING right.

Beth, we can only hope he is being facetious here. If not, try to remember that there are a lot of kids that frequent these forums.

BTW, I think most of the community is inspired by your interest in mapping. You've gotten some quality feedback here from some of the best in the business.

[Beth]

Sorry. I just am a very strong believer that both genders are fair as far as alot of things go.

Sure. Most men are better at math but that doesn't make me stupid.

[Dutch Doomer]

I suck at math and mapping also oh wait thats not completely true I am only good at math.

[alexz721]

Sarcasm just doesn't translate well into writing.

[Cybershark]

annnnnnnnd getting back onto topic...

ReX said:

But perhaps you could use a tall (i.e, 256-unit, 384-unit, or even a 512-unit) texture for the columns, so that the pattern does not repeat so often.

highly agreed. nothing looks worse than walls that stretch on to infinity while dressed in a texture that's way too small and repetative.

Beth said:

I really do not see what is the matter with the details. Nobody has even played the wad yet.

They've seen a few screen shots. Thats all.

uh... yeah well you set yourself up for this by posting screenshots. if people only have looks to go on then guess what they're going to criticise...?

[printz]

Cybershark said:

highly agreed. nothing looks worse than walls that stretch on to infinity while dressed in a texture that's way too small and repetative.

Are you sure? What about wall tiles or bricks? They have to repeat.

[BoldEnglishman]

@printz: nothing looks worse than walls that stretch on to infinity WITH ANY TEXTURE full stop

Fixed.

Besides you just don't get ridiculously high rooms, ever. Unless you shrunk to the size of an ant, there is no excuse for having huge rooms.

Besides those rooms aren't that big anyway, they're just too tall.

EDIT: Crap I use besides too much. Besides.

[printz]

Think more, BoldEnglishman. Those tall walls can be alcoved at many levels. With the right port you can transform "ridiculously" tall walls into overlaid flats, multistorey towers, honeycombs and other stuff not seen too often.

Even with vanilla Doom you can compress a level into a block of jumpable rooms, lost soul ambushes, drawbridges, multifloor elevators, finally justifying the monstrous height.

[Beth]

About the tall room in the cathedral. Have ANY of you ever played Zelda 64? Anyone?

Go to the Temple of Time in your copy of the game. Answers right there.

And I don't think I set myself up too much. Atleast wait till you play the wad to give it full judgement.

[Ralphis]

Beth said:

And I don't think I set myself up too much. Atleast wait till you play the wad to give it full judgement.

Yea, except you basically asked for it in the first post when you said

Here are some links to screenshots!

Go ahead and tell me what you think so far!

Then you jump on the defensive when people tell you the wad is bland so far.

Also, comparing to the Temple in OoT is pretty irrelevant since that tall room was pre-rendered. Doom can do a great amount of detail and what you've made in that big tall room is a big pile of ugly that is on a totally different scale from that in OoT.



A huge gray empty room with the same lighting all around just is not attractive in Doom.

[ReX]

Beth said:

About the tall room in the cathedral. Have ANY of you ever played Zelda 64? Anyone?

Go to the Temple of Time in your copy of the game. Answers right there.

As Ralphis points out, it's not appropriate to compare an old game such as DooM to later games that have far more advanced rendering capabilities. Very tall rooms will work fine in newer games, but don't do so well in DooM (even with many of the source ports). GZDooM and other ports that allow true 3D constructs can be used to prevent very tall rooms from looking plain, but vanilla DooM and DooM with most source ports won't help much.

You may not like to hear this, but exceedingly tall areas are generally the hallmark of inexperienced mappers.

And I don't think I set myself up too much. Atleast wait till you play the wad to give it full judgement.

Please take my comments in the spirit in which they are intended (i.e., not to intentionally offend, but rather to encourage a new mapper):

1. When mappers post information and/or screenshots about their projects and ask for public opinion, they must expect frank replies. Mappers cannot expect that everyone will like everything they are doing, and sometimes the replies will not be complimentary.
2. If you are posting information/screenshots on your project, and your intention is to wow the public, then your best bet is to choose the information/pics that truly showcase your project. Do not post pics that are average, get unfavorable comments on them, then point out that the pics do not truly reflect the quality of your maps.
3. If you are posting information/screenshots on your project, and your intention is to get feedback, then accept the comments graciously - even those that are not complimentary, provided that they are offered in a constructive manner.
4. So far, none of the comments on your screenshots has been unnecessarily harsh or frivolous. Any comments that were not complimentary were accompanied by fairly substantive reasons for the commenter not liking them. Many comments even went as far as providing suggestions for improvement without indicating any dislike for the pictures.
5. There are many in the DooM community that work to encourage mappers, both new and experienced. However, these and other forums are not places where mappers should visit primarily to have their egos stroked.

[printz]

ReX said:

You may not like to hear this, but exceedingly tall areas are generally the hallmark of inexperienced mappers.

Okay. But what if those tall areas are:

1. meant to impress the player with their size (there are giant buildings in the real world, for this very purpose),
   
2. chasms,
   
3. used by monsters for surprise attacks (such as Lost Souls descending from above, now filling the whole area),
   
4. raw material for tiered levels (like a level consisting of several floors of a tower)?

Yes, a serious one making a huge room has to well take care of it, so that it doesn't look pointless. What about having a skyscraper in *doom?

[BoldEnglishman]

I understand what your saying printz, but by those screenshots that's not happening. Plus very tall buildings aren't a single room that just keeps going up and up. They have multiple floors and/or elevators shafts and/or stairs with many many different rooms and areas.

I mean, as for ludicrously tall areas, Deus Vult has extremely tall elevator shafts, but of course that's what elevator shafts are meant to be. You don't get extremely tall rooms. Staircases and other means of going up and down perhaps, but not rooms.

Otherwise my comments aren't meant to be insulting. I wish ye good luck in your mapping and I hope you enjoy it at least (if other's don't).

[Beth]

I never said there wasn't floors and walkways in those high celings.

It isn't just a high celing...if you are smart you can find the secrets there.

I asked what you thought so far..not dish out a whole load of critism and asume there is nothing in the celing.

But whatever. I'm over that now.


My point of this post being. It isn't just a high celing. And OoT is an old game. Maybe I should have done this map pack for quake?

[Ralphis]

Beth said:

I asked what you thought so far..not dish out a whole load of critism and asume there is nothing in the celing.

Asking what we think so far is asking for criticism, positive or negative. You posted screen shots that look very unimpressive and we let you know that. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Beth]

Fine. I found the cristism a little harsh though. I mean..some of the people could have posted why or what and given more detail into there views.

As for saying that they are un impressive. I dunno what you guys expect. Doom 3? The same old details over and over?

Make my maps look like everyone elses?

I'm having a hard time understanding why when people played through the wad they thought it was good and then when they look at the screenshots it is a total different thing.

No matter though. I am going to start up a new project with the same name and maybe post it later. Some time in 2008 or 2009. \

However long it takes.

Thanks for all the tips and I'll try my best to use them in my new attempt.

[Ganymede]

Beth said:

Fine. I found the cristism a little harsh though. I mean..some of the people could have posted why or what and given more detail into there views.

As for saying that they are un impressive. I dunno what you guys expect. Doom 3? The same old details over and over?

Make my maps look like everyone elses?

I'm having a hard time understanding why when people played through the wad they thought it was good and then when they look at the screenshots it is a total different thing.

No matter though. I am going to start up a new project with the same name and maybe post it later. Some time in 2008 or 2009. \

However long it takes.

Thanks for all the tips and I'll try my best to use them in my new attempt.

I wouldn't take these opinions to heart so readily, if I were you. I always think its better to actually finish making one project, regardless the quality, than scrap it for fear of what people might think. It might help you to be more disapassionate about your work. Plus, you should be making what you want to make, not what the community expects. If everyone did exactly what the community expected, things would become pretty uninventive.

Remember that DooM can be a great game, irrespective of massive detail or correct lighting. Sometimes hyper-pedantry can really distract from gameplay, I've found.

[Beth]

Thanks :)

I'm going to take the project slow and may never release it.

I might even re do a few levels.

But the other wad I am working on almost seems fit.

Then again, who knows?

[Belial]

Back to the cathedral thing:



Find the differences :P

Sorry for the size, but it wouldn't work otherwise.

[Beth]

Thanks for pointing that out...

I wont ever try and make a cathedral in Doom again =P

I'll make cathedrals on Quake.

[Mithral_Demon]

Beth said:

Thanks for pointing that out...

I wont ever try and make a cathedral in Doom again =P

I'll make cathedrals on Quake.

HEY HEY HEY!!! Don't EVER say that! You can make a Cathedral and what not, but not make a fucking 4000unit high room, makes it very empty and bland! Just shorten it where you can see the roof and then add details, don't give up, just try try again.
And about them red carpet floors... If you know how to shorten the width of some sectors (Shift+right mouse button hold, drag), pretty much like:

Make it alittle fasionable, guilded floors, that will sum up some better details.

[Impie]

Beth, you're getting showered with great advice from people who are trying to help you improve, and you're repaying them with princessy hissy fits. While I'm not a Doom level designer, I see this kind of childish crap in online writing communities on a regular basis and it never fails to rub me the wrong way. It discourages people from wanting to help you, and it prevents you from developing your skill.

Consider their feedback, apply it to what you have, and post the results. And don't whip out that gender card again.

[Beth]

I've taken to there advice ;)

Thanks for the tip though...you'll see that I'll use it in my new project.

So I learned a lesson...no high celings **

[BoldEnglishman]

For some reason I can't see Belial's pictures (unless that's the point).

...and no, "Show Picture" ain't working either :(

[ReX]

BoldEnglishman said:

For some reason I can't see Belial's pictures (unless that's the point).

...and no, "Show Picture" ain't working either :(

The same thing happened to me (perhaps it's my pop-up blocker), so I simply downloaded the pictures (by right-clicking my mouse and saving the picture) to my computer.

[myk]

The shots work for me.

Do you guys use a cybernanny? Maybe it's blocking off the URLs because they say "belial", that's bound to frighten little church going kiddies.

EDIT: Actually, I see them in Firefox but not in IE. I'm guessing Spybot's "Immunize" list is blocking the host, and probably any other such lists are doing the same.

[John Smith]

All I get is a blank image. Which is gay. It might have something to do with some gaybar from startan3's web host, but I don't care enough to call and ask.

[esselfortium]

Works for me in Firefox in XP and Camino in OS X. :\

[myk]

Hmm, it doesn't seem blocked as the "restricted sites" icon isn't showing in the IE status bar when I load Belial's page or any single screen shot, which is not displayed by itself either.

It's probably that IE is just retarded.

EDIT: I downloaded an image through IE and opened it with The GIMP. While it opened it fine it gave a message saying Error while reading "D:\Desktop\DOOM70.PNG". File corrupted?. Apparently there's something odd about the PNGs. IE is retarded, regardless.