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hardcore_gamer

Looking for a good source port for Heretic

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leileilol said:

Zdoom


oh! I thought Zdoom could only play Doom pwads. I this make me look stupid. Sorry for creating a thread that has become pointless already:(
Anyway i won't blame the admins for locking this thread.

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Eternity kinda-sorta supports Heretic. The weapons and inventory items just aren't implemented yet ^____^ Check back in a few months, support should be 100%.

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The next version of Skulltag will have full Heretic support, if you're interested in playing it online.

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Stilgar said:

What port is recommended for Heretic under Linux, or is it a "use DOSBox" sort of thing...?

DoomsDay

FEATURES
* Supports Windows, Linux/Unix, and Mac OS X operating systems.

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ZDoom and Skulltag run in linux as well.

Also I think Vavoom has Heretic support and runs under linux.

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Yeah, but as its creator already stated:

Quasar said:

Eternity kinda-sorta supports Heretic. The weapons and inventory items just aren't implemented yet ^____^ Check back in a few months, support should be 100%.



... it's probably not the best option at the moment. ;)

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I run ZDoom, I finished all the first four episodes, and I still have the last one to finish.

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Graf Zahl said:

... it's probably not the best option at the moment. ;)

I never said it was, I was merely mentioning that additional fact that eternity also runs on linux so that it was known. I think it's obvious by Quasar's post that it's not "the best choice". I'm not sure if you think I don't read threads or what, but I'd rather not find out why and derail the thread.

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still no pure port of heretic like prboom or choc doom are for doom...

btw, legacy has a pretty good heretic support and still retains the old school feel, unlike doomsday or zdoom.

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If you want a pure port of Heretic and/or Hexen, you should be bugging Raven to put the source code under GPL, because nobody I know is going to bother working on such a thing while the source remains under the shitty Activision EULA. It makes it technically illegal to even try.

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entryway said:

If you will make completely compatible port (I mean demos) - it will be priceless


Currently is not compatible, that's because playing old demos is disabled, mainly because of issues like flying and inventory.

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jval said:

Currently is not compatible, that's because playing old demos is disabled, mainly because of issues like flying and inventory.

I am afraid about compatibility because it based not on the original sources if I understood you correctly (based on delphidoom)

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About compatibility: The A_xxxx AI functions has been translated (rewriten from scratch) from C to Delphi taking all the appropriate "precausions" to keep compatibility. (just as DelphiDoom witch is 95-99% compatible with old game demos)
The P_XYMovement() and P_ZMovement() functions are based on DelphiDoom, patched to fit Heretic new featues. (as well as the rendering engine and the sound code witch does not affect compatibility).
Anyway, compatibility with old demos is an issue I have in mind and it is possible. The similarity of Doom and Heretic gave me the opportunity to make a playable heretic port based on DelphiDoom with less than a week of work, could anyone try to do this with PrBoom/PrBoom-plus (witch are fully compatible)?????

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Quasar said:
because nobody I know is going to bother working on such a thing while the source remains under the shitty Activision EULA.

Basically, it can be used like any other resource in the games to make addons for it. The requirements are that it has to be for use with the corresponding game (Hexen or Heretic) and cannot be used for profit. ZDoom (although its users make a mess of the licenses by blatantly mixing the DOOM and Raven games, thus it's probably wiser to release DOOM and Raven engines separately) and jval's engines already use the license, so it's not unfeasible to see a pure engine going by the Raven license.

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jval said:

The similarity of Doom and Heretic gave me the opportunity to make a playable heretic port based on DelphiDoom with less than a week of work, could anyone try to do this with PrBoom/PrBoom-plus (witch are fully compatible)?????

Of course it could be easily done with PrBoom if we simply ignored the licenses. But GPL + Raven licenses do not mix.

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Ajapted said:

Of course it could be easily done with PrBoom if we simply ignored the licenses. But GPL + Raven licenses do not mix.


Does that mean that making a Heretic port using as base a Doom port is not legal? Or under witch license must we release it?

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If you take the Raven license literally you are pretty much out of options because it basically means 'don't use this source and better don't even look at it!'

If, however, it is true that the addition of this license was an accident and the source was supposed to be released under something like the original Doom license you can basically use anything that isn't released under the GPL or has comparably invasive clauses.

In any case, this means that Chocolate Doom and PrBoom can not be used with the Raven code at all because no matter how you see it, the licenses are incompatible.

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Graf Zahl said:
If you take the Raven license literally you are pretty much out of options because it basically means 'don't use this source and better don't even look at it!'

No, it has a whole chunk dedicated to "New Materials" where it explicitly grants permission to make such stuff, basically under the conditions I stated in my post above. I don't think it was by mistake that they included the EULA*. Since it already allowed addons, they decided to apply the same conditions to the released code. Granted ZDoom is technically breaking that EULA as it's not using the code exclusively for Hexen and Heretic, as requested.

* I also used to think they included it by accident or incorrectly, but reading it fully does not seem to support that idea.

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In my opinion this whole thing looks like a stupid and clueless clerk in their legal department just slapped on their standard license without thinking and nobody ever bothered to correct this mistake.

If they really wanted to enforce such outrageous claims, wouldn't you think that they'd have sued someone by now?

The license contains sections that are utterly ridiculous if applied to source code.

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Graf Zahl said:
The license contains sections that are utterly ridiculous if applied to source code.

It's rather confusing because of the License Conditions at the top (perhaps a restatement of the general license for the games*), but considering the source was released for use by licensed users of the games, it seems to be categorizing it as "programming assets and resources" that may be used under the conditions specified in the Program Utilities section.

* Especially since it's assuming, for example, that the Program has a definite way it is used online, which perhaps can be said of a built game but not really of a mere source.

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