Doom Hires texture Pack DHTP-20071111 released

[Graf Zahl]

Yagisan said:

After reading the thread here, its pretty clear those attached to the zdoom ports and derivatives don't like the pack. They don't have to use it.

I can tell you why this reaction is that port specific:
In all honesty, you have to admit that Doomsday is mostly for users who prefer to play Doom with more 'modern' resources, be it higher resolution textures, models or some advanced graphical effects.

Most users of graphically more basic ports value the specific aesthetics of the original Doom graphics (I know, I do) and for them to accept an enhancement it must represent the original more or less faithfully.

KuriKai said:

Yes, I am. You would too, if in every post about the gzdoom port you made. I came in and said this is nothing like doom, it changes it to much, It sucks!

Thanks for clarifying. Unfortunately you get it all wrong: Criticism is not there to discourage you from continuing to work on it but instead to avoid the issues that have been pointed out in the future and fix the affected textures. If you just dismiss someone's opinion out of hand because you don't like it the texture pack will never improve and each time you release a new version the same issues will come up.
The reason I have such a strong dislike for hires texture replacements is not because they are hires texture replacements but because they are almost always so totally out of character. I will continue to voice my opinion about it in the hopes that it will get better. But apparently criticism is not what wants to be heard.
Also, a changelog inside the PK3 would be a good idea so one could concentrate on what's new and you avoid having to discuss the same old issues over again. To be honest, I have no idea which textures have changed since the last release.

There is no overlaying wooden structure in that picture, the ickwall textures were made from a picture of a REAL concrete wall.

you are talking about the pipes? explain more clearly please.

Take a closer look at the lower part of ICKWALL1. The vertical pattern going through the concrete should not cross both the lighter and darker parts. There should be a visible break between them as they are clearly not continuous. From the shadowing in the picture the darker part is slightly recessed but the patterns go through it uninterrupted. And if you do a direct comparison between ICKWALL1 and ICKWALL2 the problem is obvious: The source for all these textures was a single picture of a plain concrete wall and for the purpose of this release some areas were just darkened or brightened, right?

I think it would help a lot if you just moved the darker parts to the left or right or in cases where that can't be done mirror it or rotate it by 180° to break up the patterns.

[entryway]

I hate hires textures upon the whole, but I found, that I can use they with new wads easily. When I "do not know" how level should look, then hi-res textures are awesome for me. I played "Wonderful Doom" (my knowledge of original doom1 is so-so) with them and I have been surprised by new look of doom. I even have started to think, that the hires textures and models for Duke3d are 'excellent' only because I played Duke3d a little in comparison with Doom and has not got used to its visuals like in Doom.

[Graf Zahl]

For the record, the newly released GZDoom 1.0.28 will be able to handle this file unaltered. If you want to load it each time you play Doom you can put its name in the Doom.Autoload section of the INI file.

However, I found a minor error with 2 file names: CEMENT1 and CEMENT3 are incorrectly named CEMENT1.1.PNG and CEMENT3.1.PNG. I have not implemented a workaround for these so they won't show as hires.

[KuriKai]

So It can load the jdtp version? and can handle the different loading of textures for the different Doom Iwads?

Thanks for that. I forgot to rename them after I had altered the cement textures colour to more match the original. The fix will be in the next pack

[entryway]

KuriKai said:

So It can load the jdtp version? and can handle the different loading of textures for the different Doom Iwads?

gzdoom and prboom-plus searches textures in several dirs for compatibility with all packages
For example for Plutonia IWAD:

textures/doom/plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/plut/%s-ck.%s"
textures/doom2-plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/doom2-plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/doom2-plut/%s-ck.%s"
textures/doom/%s.%s"
textures/doom/%s-ck.%s"
textures/%s.%s"
textures/%s-ck.%s"

the first %s is texturename, the second is extantion

[Graf Zahl]

KuriKai said:

So It can load the jdtp version? and can handle the different loading of textures for the different Doom Iwads?

Sure. I had to make some guesses though. I'd appreciate if someone could clarify:

1. What's the subfolder name for Doom 1 WAD? 'data/jdoom/textures/doom' or 'data/jdoom/textures/doom1'? The texture pack doesn't have such a folder.
2. Is support for subfolders in 'flats' necessary? After all there are no conflicts between the IWADs.
3. For Heretic and Hexen I assume that 'jdoom' has to be replaced with 'jheretic' and 'jhexen' respectively, right?
4. Since the current texture pack uses proper alpha channels I don't know if the -ck colorkey marker still needs to be supported to be compatible.

entryway said:

gzdoom and prboom-plus searches textures in several dirs for compatibility with all packages
For example for Plutonia IWAD:

textures/doom/plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/plut/%s-ck.%s"
textures/doom2-plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/doom2-plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/doom2-plut/%s-ck.%s"
textures/doom/%s.%s"
textures/doom/%s-ck.%s"
textures/%s.%s"
textures/%s-ck.%s"

the first %s is texturename, the second is extantion

I added a second routine for hires textures in a PK3 because this one is restricted to external files. The new one uses the paths used in this file.

[entryway]

textures/doom/plut/%s.%s"
textures/doom/plut/%s-ck.%s"

would be better if you'll add a simple caching to avoid repeated search of hires textures in non-existing dirs over and over again for each fucking texture. Something like 'exists' flag for every path

[Graf Zahl]

Each texture is searched for precisely once and if it fails a flag is set so it doesn't happen again.

And even if it was done repeatedly, the time needed for this is still inconsequential compared to loading the texture itself - which is precisely what happens after looking for hires textures.

[entryway]

Graf Zahl said:

Each texture is searched for precisely once and if it fails a flag is set so it doesn't happen again.

I mean you try to find each texture for example in ./textures/doom/plut/%s.%s", even you already know that the ./textures/doom/plut/ does not exist

[KuriKai]

Graf Zahl said:

Sure. I had to make some guesses though. I'd appreciate if someone could clarify:

1. What's the subfolder name for Doom 1 WAD? 'data/jdoom/textures/doom' or 'data/jdoom/textures/doom1'? The texture pack doesn't have such a folder.

The base path for doom is "data/jdoom/textures"
the shareware folder is "data/jdoom/textures/doom1"
the registered folder is "data/jdoom/textures/doom"
the ultimate folder is "data/jdoom/textures/doom-ult" < I think
everything that is shared between more than one wad goes in "data/jdoom/textures"
doom2 only goes in "data/jdoom/textures/doom2"
plutonia goes in "data/jdoom/textures/doom2-plut"
tnt goes in "data/jdoom/textures/doom2-tnt"

Graf Zahl said:

2. Is support for subfolders in 'flats' necessary? After all there are no conflicts between the IWADs.

No sub folders are necessary

Graf Zahl said:

3. For Heretic and Hexen I assume that 'jdoom' has to be replaced with 'jheretic' and 'jhexen' respectively, right?

Correct. I do not know the paths yet as I have not even started on those packs yet

Graf Zahl said:

4. Since the current texture pack uses proper alpha channels I don't know if the -ck colorkey marker still needs to be supported to be compatible.

You don't need to support it

[KuriKai]

I just released a new version that fixes the problem mentioned by codeimp, the final doom textures should now load with final doom and I fixed more problems that was similar to the bug that code imp reported

and added one new texture, sp_face1

Get it from here http://forums.yaa.dk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=69

[Yagisan]

Graf Zahl said:

I can tell you why this reaction is that port specific:
In all honesty, you have to admit that Doomsday is mostly for users who prefer to play Doom with more 'modern' resources, be it higher resolution textures, models or some advanced graphical effects.

Thats not exactly true - while Doomsday is very strong is those areas, it certainly not the only reason (it's certainly not why I got interested in that port) . There is also the delightfully ironic paradox, that while it has the some (most ?) of the advanced graphical features - it is plays classic doom wads - boom/zdoom/<foobar> extensions - thats not classic doom gameplay (I rarely see xg support in the wild ... ). But thats a whole other interesting topic - perhaps best suited for a which port is right for me thread.

Graf Zahl said:

Most users of graphically more basic ports value the specific aesthetics of the original Doom graphics (I know, I do) and for them to accept an enhancement it must represent the original more or less faithfully.

While I'd like to have several packs to choose from - at present we have kurikai's interpretation of what he sees - I think its quite nice (but still needs work - some of those early drafts I saw - urgh). Those that feel his textures miss something from the original - and if they plan to actually use them - should let him know constructively - submitting patches or in this case, better textures would be great.

Instead, I see a lot of flaming towards him - from the zdoom based ports. If they aren't going to use the pack - why blast him like that ?

There is nothing stopping people from making their own high resolution textures for Doom - but if what you really want is identical to the Doom textures but larger - investigate if your port has a texture filter for them, eg hq2x (called Smart Filtering in Doomsday) and turn it on - otherwise - continue playing with the original textures.

[durnurd]

I just looked through the PNGs, and one comment I have is that the TEKWALL* (and any other textures that contain similar features, like TEKGREN1 and SWCOMP1) textures have the most gigantic computer chips embedded in them that I have ever seen. I don't think they built that wall to look like a motherboard zoomed way in.

If anything, it should look like a regular-size motherboard, but very large. The chips should be, at that resolution, ten or fifteen pixels tall at most. There are random RAM slots that came right out of the eighties, and the problem I have with them aside from the fact that RAM usually isn't 5 feet long is that they kind of fade away instead of have a definite end point. This goes for everything on the wall. The cross-fading looks too organic. There needs to be sharp edges, and endpoints, and reasons for things to be that way.

Also, the skull switch should either have the exact same display in both eye sockets or have completely different text in both eye sockets. The same text aligned differently is unconvincing to me.

I have to agree that I do see a vertical woody texture over the ICKWALL* textures. It's a little confusing. Also, the vertical lines on SUPPORT2 are a little too dark.

As a general bit of advice, when something looks like an indentation, the texture that overlaps it should be offset to look like it follows the indentation. In SUPPORT2, for example, if the vertical lines within the boxes were offset a few pixels to the left, and then sloped back out on the top and bottom edges (well, can't really see the top, but the bottom anyway) it would be more convincing. Another example is the ICKWALL* textures again with the green ooze. This is shown well in CRLWD*** with the TNT and UAC logos

The GST***** textures are inconsistent. GSTFONT*, for example, has a very etched look around the head's edges, but GSTLION, for example, looks very fuzzy around the edges. The same goes for the other heads.

Not sure what the brush is doing at the bottom of the FIREWALL textures. I think in the original it looks more like skeletons. Admittedly, it's hard to see, being so small.

I'd resize the skulls in DOOR*2 so that they take up the full height in case somebody wants to tile it vertically.

CRATINY has no numbers, but CRATELIT does. In the original, this is understandable, since there was hardly the room, but now that you've gone hi-def, it would make sense to have some numbers there. The UAC wouldn't be so disorderly to leave their crates unnumbered!

the lion in BIGDOOR6 does look flat, there's no getting around it. The others look like they are simply etched into the wall, extruding not very far at all, but BIGDOOR6 looks like it's trying to achieve 3D, which works when you look at it straight on, but not, of course, at an angle. And how would that lion fit up into the ceiling when the door opens if it's jutting out as far as it looks like it is?

Solaris is the name of a Unix-based operating system, Sol is the name of our sun.

The UAC base is not actually on Tei Tenga, it's on... Deimos or Phobos or something. So while PLANET1 may ostensibly have a picture of said planet, the name of the UAC base would not actually be that.

The bottom of CRLWDH and its similar pieces is questionably cut at best. I don't think they make Y-shaped 2x4s. It should be a separate piece.

[CodeImp]

KuriKai said:

I just released a new version

yay \o/

Found something else too:
before (right), after (wrong)
The skinface texture is too grayish and looks weird with the floor. If you want to see for yourself, this is E3M3, straight ahead up the stairs , in the back of the room take the stairs on the right.

[Richo Rosai]

Thanks for everyone's efforts on these. If nothing else, it's fun to go through and see your interpretations.

[KuriKai]

durnurd: I have not done the tekwalls yet, but I plan to do them soon and they will look like the originals.

CodeImp: Thanks, I have fixed that now.


I also plan do go over those metal textures that don't match with each other and make them all match each other.

It would be great if anyone wants to help with this pack. It is a massive job for just one person.