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mikey.ehlert

best source port for single player mods

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what's the best, somewhat vanilla, source port for playing with?

i don't even want/need anything like 3d maps. i have some ideas for rogue-like doom rpg that i want to try

if it can do scripting and has higher res art, that would be bitchin

k.thx.bye

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LOL @ FIRST LINK

nothing is "somewhat vanilla" about zdoom. you can bill zdoom as many things, and they'd be true 99% of the time, but you can't bill zdoom as "somewhat vanilla" because it's not.

OP: Use PrBoom+ or Chocolate Doom (linked above). Pr can do scripting (of a sort), but lacks hi-res textures. Any software rendered port lacks hi-res textures though (yomoneyboat got confused with zdoom supporting big textures and pngs, which isn't hi-res).

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I'm no mapper but scripting+vanilla+highres isn't that what EDGE is all about?
The website says "The EDGE project is a programming project to develop a DOOMtm style engine aimed at the Total Conversion developer, but still able to play the original DOOM games."
And it support highres.

@yomoneyboat: Some maps like casali's seej don't work as intended in zdoom. You miss the army of ghost which makes this map fantastic. Maybe it can be changed but I don't know how.
Also the bfg is much more powerful in zdoom.

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John Smith said:

OP: Use PrBoom+ or Chocolate Doom (linked above). Pr can do scripting (of a sort), but lacks hi-res textures.

Prboom-plus does handle hires textures (et al.) - this is a recent feature (and OpenGL-only), so you'll need the current version for that. I'm not quite sure what you mean by scripting though, other than with voodoo dolls and Boom compatibility.

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John Smith said:

LOL @ FIRST LINK

nothing is "somewhat vanilla" about zdoom. you can bill zdoom as many things, and they'd be true 99% of the time, but you can't bill zdoom as "somewhat vanilla" because it's not.

He said he wanted scripting and high-res textures. ZDoom doesn't seem like such a crazy choice.

They are conflicting demands, though. You won't really find a port that is both "somewhat vanilla" and has advanced editing features like scripting and high-res textures :-)

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I imagine Belial is expressing how much he suffered having to hunt those bastards down while recording that tight demo.

John Smith said:
nothing is "somewhat vanilla" about zdoom.

I think some people jump to that conclusion because it runs in software mode. A rather superficial reason, if valid in its own sphere (that it has "somewhat vanilla" graphics rendering, specifically). Even then, with its high resolutions and other tweaks (internal colormaps and optional visual changes), that's definitely only in the "somewhat" department. The comparison is being made with Doom Legacy and JDoom, primarily (though now also GZDoom), and in some respects these two may be more "vanilla" than it is, at least without using any compatibility settings. If some think it's more vanilla than PrBoom because it includes the hardware rendered GLBoom, they are quite confused.

That said, ZDoom doesn't seem a bad choice for mikey.ehlert, if he wants robust scripting capabilities. Eternity or even JDoom could also work, I suppose. If anything, ZDoom has the advantage of more mods using its features, illustrating how it could be effectively used.

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fraggle said:
You won't really find a port that is both "somewhat vanilla" and has advanced editing features like scripting and high-res textures :-)


You mean, like Eternity?

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I do not understand why people are suggesting for scripting such unpopular ports like edge or eternity. I mean their scripting features only. Do you realize, if author of topic will hear you and make a wad for such ports he will lose 90% of potential audience? Or you just want to fuck the author? If some people want to scripting, OF COURSE you MUST suggest zdoom and only zdoom unless you want to press with your favour.

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entryway said:
Or you just want to fuck the author?

Not sure, but it does sound like you, entryway, want to "fuck" the engine authors. I mean, how is anyone going to use said engines if no one makes any wads with their features?

It's also a load of bullshit to say people won't play a wad unless it runs in ZDoom. While there are some people like that, many will try a wad if it seems good, as long as the engine it runs on is stable and doesn't bother them somehow.

Since when are you into encouraging faddish behavior (to do as others do), Andrey?

For a new author, ZDoom offers the advantage I pointed out above (more examples and testing) but such an author is still more or less starting from scratch with advanced features, so another engine may well do as well, with perhaps a bit more preparation.

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entryway said:

Do you realize, if author of topic will hear you and make a wad for such ports he will lose 90% of potential audience?

So you're saying every port except (g)zdoom should just fuck off and die because they are not as popular as (g)zdoom? That there is no room around here for anything but The One True Port??

unless you want to press with your favour.[/B]

I think that phrase got lost in translation...

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Ajapted said:

So you're saying every port except (g)zdoom should just fuck off and die because they are not as popular as (g)zdoom? That there is no room around here for anything but The One True Port??

No. I want to say you should not suggest unpopular ports for new users only because you are author or funboy. Zdoom is full of features and has a brilliant support on own forum and in wiki. Also zdoom's features are time-proved, because we have one million zdoom wads. Can you say the same about edge? And finally: where I told, that the edge or its author is bad? I do not use zdoom at all, but my understanding of a situation is above

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entryway said:
I want to say you should not suggest unpopular ports for new users only because you are author or funboy.

Funboys like the engines they find fun and they are familiar with, so they recommend them, and wish to see them used by others. Fanboys, on the other hand say stuff like "don't use that useless crap, use THIS AWESOMENESS instead".

While similar, funboys are okay, but fanboys are jerks.

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I think, the authoritative part of this community will hate me soon (or already did), therefore I become silent and meek

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entryway said:
I do not understand why people are suggesting for scripting such unpopular ports like edge or eternity. (...) If some people want to scripting, OF COURSE you MUST suggest zdoom and only zdoom unless you want to press with your favour.


The OP also wanted "somewhat vanilla". ZDoom is a nice port full of editing goodness, but "vanilla" is not something I associate it with. Why use a particular port when you're not planning to use most of its features?

Slopes, hubs, inventory and H/H support needed? Go ZDoom by all means. Anything else can be done using other ports as well. And I'm sure you can agree that calling a bland level with one particle fountain "zdoom-only" is stretching it.

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entryway said:

I want to say you should not suggest unpopular ports for new users only because you are author or funboy.

Aren't you being a fanboy by praising ZDoom so highly?

I think us port authors have the right to suggest our port to new users. Just because it is not the most popular port doesn't mean it is bad or that the new user cannot get help. Having a larger community can be an advantage but it is not a cure-all.

Zdoom is full of features and has a brilliant support on own forum and in wiki. Also zdoom's features are time-proved, because we have one million zdoom wads.

About a year ago I downloaded the stable ZDoom release, and the face on the HUD was missing! So don't tell me that ZDoom is the most rock-solid thing in the universe, it has bugs like all other software, and has crashed on me several times.

P.S. I don't hate you

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entryway said:

No. I want to say you should not suggest unpopular ports for new users only because you are author or funboy. Zdoom is full of features and has a brilliant support on own forum and in wiki. Also zdoom's features are time-proved, because we have one million zdoom wads. Can you say the same about edge? And finally: where I told, that the edge or its author is bad? I do not use zdoom at all, but my understanding of a situation is above

I agree, which is why I defended ZDoom as a choice earlier in the thread :-)

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Ajapted said:

Aren't you being a fanboy by praising ZDoom so highly?

I think us port authors have the right to suggest our port to new users.

Yes but not all of them use their rights
Entryway did take into account the position of the beginning mapper.
I didn't, I just read X AND Y AND Z equals EDGE (and many more as it turns out but it won't equal empathy as there is no such port).

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The only award for newbie, except for satisfaction of the ambitions, it is how other people will love his work. There are more people, there is more love. It's simple. Isn't it?

There are three strong formats: doom, boom, zdoom. It was developed historically. Of course, this thought can be unpleasant for authors who made his own format (even if it is objectively better) in his own port and fans of this port, but we should not push a newbie to that way only by this reason. We should not do it even if we like the port with all one's heart. We should suggest the most easy way without our personal preferences. Is it bullshit?

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I'd advise GZDoom as probably the best source port for single player mods because it's compatible with vanilla mods of course, with ZDoom mods as well of course too, but also with Legacy mods. Also, it supports Doom, Heretic, Hexen and even Strife correctly. (Strife support isn't 100% faithful to original Strife, but the differences are mostly cosmetic.) It won't run Doomsday (JDoom, JHeretic, JHexen), EDGE or Eternity mods, though.

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entryway said:

I do not understand why people are suggesting for scripting such unpopular ports like edge or eternity.

They are options. They aren't always <= ZDoom. Map authors won't lose 90% of potential audience if their work shines (and so it must).

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Gez said:

I'd advise GZDoom as probably the best source port for single player mods because it's compatible with vanilla mods of course, with ZDoom mods as well of course too, but also with Legacy mods. Also, it supports Doom correctly.

That is not true.
GZDoomxx is not compatible with (G)ZDoomxx
And it does not support Doom correctly.
Didn't know it's compatible with legacy.
Don't know how big the issue is with (g)zdoom not being compatible with gzdoom but it might be a good idea to mention the version of (G)ZDoom you used for your map, me thinks.
Instead of the use the latest version, I see quite often in text files.
Is there a zdoom version which features are always supported in later incarnations of zdoom?

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Coldfusio said:

Did you dislike it because of the implementation (the archvile having too much space?
(background info here.)
or don't you like ghosts in doom maps?

Ghosts are fine with me, as long as their movements are controllable to some extent and their spawning is predictable, which was not the case in seej where the archvile has to hit that sweetspot to start resurrecting them and the main area is completely open for them to move around in.

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Belial said:

Ghosts are fine with me, as long as their movements are controllable to some extent and their spawning is predictable, which was not the case in seej where the archvile has to hit that sweetspot to start resurrecting them and the main area is completely open for them to move around in.

Belial, can you finish doom2 on nightmare? How about nightmare with 100% of secrets? You are my favorite of the latest years and I should know. Do you have a potential to beat the latest Ryback's demo? In any case I want to see your tries.

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I've never tried Doom2 on NM. The only NM movies I've recorded are some runs of the first 3 episodes of UDoom I did for fun.

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Public it if you can. Please. Your run of Eleven and casaly's seej make me hope. I miss about full movies of doom2. Vile and Xit do not want to record some max or tyson for me :( Ryback's run is exception *for years* :(

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