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sirjuddington

SLADE Suggestions/Feedback

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So, I figure it's about time to start working on SLADE again. And by 'working on' I don't mean continuing, I mean starting yet another rewrite :P But before I get started I wanted to know what you guys liked about it, what you disliked, and any suggestions/requests you might have for the editor so I can keep them in mind from the very beginning.

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I've been using Slade a fair bit recently. I don't have too much to complain about, just a couple of niggling things:

When I group select, and then move some stuff, it deselects the stuff I had selected, which can be a little annoying. It'd be better (imo) if the stuff you've selected stays selected until you deselect it yourself.

When I'm drawing stuff and switching through modes, sometimes (by habit probably) I'll press space to insert something, like if I'm in line mode, start drawing lines, vertex mode, a new vertex, or thing mode, a new thing. But it just starts drawing lines. This is probably just personal preference though and I'm not sure if you can change it in the menu or something :P

Well, that's the only two suggestions I have for now, feel free to tell me to stfu or that they're already possible :P

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I know it's been suggested before and is probably unlikely to happen, but a sector-based option like WadAuthor uses would be fantastic. I've never been able to get used to line drawing and hate not being able to select everything without switching modes all the time.

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Oh shi, SlayeR, are you actually interested in working on SLADE again? <333333

When I'm drawing stuff and switching through modes, sometimes (by habit probably) I'll press space to insert something, like if I'm in line mode, start drawing lines, vertex mode, a new vertex, or thing mode, a new thing. But it just starts drawing lines. This is probably just personal preference though and I'm not sure if you can change it in the menu or something :P

The default key to place a new vertex or thing or whatever is insert. You can bind it to something else in the settings if you want.

A while back I made a textfile of Slade issues I've noticed, since joe_ was thinking about trying to fix some stuff in it:

http://sl4.startan3.com/carp/sladebugs.txt

I probably forgot some stuff, but fixing some of those would be a good start.

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3d mode crashes periodically for no apparent reason. rather irksome. i think a nice feature would be to show 3D floors in 3D mode for ports like legacy and GZDoom. it would be nice to see working configuration file for the Doom64 TC.

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3D mode crashes if you look straight up or straight down. This might be the problem you're having; I've never had it crash on me otherwise.

Ooh, SlayeR, speaking of Janitor's idea for 3D floors in 3D mode...
CodeImp was talking about having some sort of add-on architecture for Doom Builder 2, so that people could develop their own plug-ins for their own engines' features. If an engine implements slopes, 3D floors, portals, colored lighting, or whatever, its developers (or an informed user, I guess) could write an add-on to make those things editable in 3D mode.

Also also, ExtraData editing support for Eternity!
Crappy mspaint mockup: http://sl4.startan3.com/screens/extradata_edit.png

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3d floors would be useful for edge etc, also it does crash in 3d mode when looking up or down above a sector thats very close to the ceiling. other than that i happy :), great editor btw.

EDIT: a select all feature...

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SlayeR said:

I don't mean continuing, I mean starting yet another rewrite :P

Here's an idea that interests me (though not quite enough to begin my own editor) : include a built-in scripting language (LUA is pretty easy one to incorporate and to program with), and allow custom commands ('mods') to be created by users. With some simple primitives for inspecting and modifying the map, and for getting some input from the user, a lot of cool things could be done.

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some suggestions :

- just like deth and DB allow people to make a custom item menu (for wads modifying the resources through dehacked)
- cant seem to find a way to select a bunch of items/vertex/linedefs/etc using the mouse and holding the left button (DB and DETH do that and its quite useful) IGNORE THIS ONE I FOUND SHIFT+MOUSE1 :D
- allow texture alignment finetuning using keys in 3dmode (just like DB)
- like deth : allow to build simple structures through menus (stairs, polygons,doors, lifts...)
- new thing that no editor has : allow to load premade structures from 'sample' PWADS. I have a bunch of little sample wads with premade structures with some special effects (invisible bridges, transparent doors, invisible rising stairs... ). This option would be great to implement custom premade structures w/o the hassle of copy/pasting.
- option to emulate DETH menus for items, linedefs, sidedefs and sectors. I became quit fond of its shortcut keys... and no longer require the use of the mouse for toggling them.

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- just like deth and DB allow people to make a custom item menu (for wads modifying the resources through dehacked)

Already possible if you either modify or create a new cfg file in slade.pk3 (pk3 = zip, rename it and unzip)

- allow texture alignment finetuning using keys in 3dmode (just like DB)

Already possible. I forget what the default keys are for it, since I mostly use custom settings in Slade, but you can do this. You can align either in steps of 8 or 1 unit at a time.

- like deth : allow to build simple structures through menus (stairs, polygons,doors, lifts...)

You can build rectangles and ovals/polygons using an optional sidebar. You can turn any sector into a functional door by right-clicking and selecting Create Door. The other stuff would be nice to have, though.

- new thing that no editor has : allow to load premade structures from 'sample' PWADS. I have a bunch of little sample wads with premade structures with some special effects (invisible bridges, transparent doors, invisible rising stairs... ). This option would be great to implement custom premade structures w/o the hassle of copy/pasting.

I know Doom Builder has this (prefabs). I've never used them and I don't know anyone else who does, but if there are other people out there who are actually interested in it, it'd be good I guess.

- option to emulate DETH menus for items, linedefs, sidedefs and sectors. I became quit fond of its shortcut keys... and no longer require the use of the mouse for toggling them.

Slade is Slade. Not Deth. Slade is not trying to be Deth. I'm pretty sure SlayeR has no desire to emulate Deth, he's got enough work on his plate already just making Slade work on its own.
With that said, though, Slade has quite a few shortcut keys, including ones for switching between editing modes. S for Sector, Q for 3D mode, T for Things, L for Linedefs, V for Vertices, etc...

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Ajapted said:

Here's an idea that interests me (though not quite enough to begin my own editor) : include a built-in scripting language (LUA is pretty easy one to incorporate and to program with), and allow custom commands ('mods') to be created by users. With some simple primitives for inspecting and modifying the map, and for getting some input from the user, a lot of cool things could be done.


This would be sex.

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esselfortium said:

Already possible if you either modify or create a new cfg file in slade.pk3 (pk3 = zip, rename it and unzip)

If users really have to modify the pk3 file just to add a new config, then I have another suggestion: MAKE IT EASIER.

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Ajapted said:

If users really have to modify the pk3 file just to add a new config, then I have another suggestion: MAKE IT EASIER.

All the config files are inside the pk3 file, yeah. It'd be easier to just have them in a folder.

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All other things aside, I think added LUA (or any other) scripting won't help so much. The guys that know LUA are educated well enough to understand a programming language: in which case they can just take the source from the SVN and add a function to it (all the support functions they need are already there or the editor wouldn't work.) Most (if not all) of the features a map author needs are there, so I doubt a common map author would go through the trouble of learning and making scripts to get something slightly different done which could be done in one or two clicks. No?

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CodeImp said:

All other things aside, I think added LUA (or any other) scripting won't help so much. The guys that know LUA are educated well enough to understand a programming language: in which case they can just take the source from the SVN and add a function to it

There is a big difference between writing a LUA script and modifying the editor itself. I think you greatly underestimate how much more knowledge and patience it takes to edit/compile a complex C or C++ program (maybe DoomBuilder is different because it is VB?).

As for usefulness: maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I personally would find it really useful. For example, does DoomBuilder have a function to select all sectors whose light level is <= 128? Being able to write a test function in LUA that the editor would call (for a find or highlight command) would be pretty handy:

function light_level_test(S)
return (S.lightlevel <= 128)
end

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Thinking about that though, are there really that many situations where that level of control is needed?

Perhaps it would be simpler implementing an element selection algorithm which allowed n conditional rules as criteria, into SLADE itself if that is the most useful it could get?

Not that I'm opposed to the idea of a script-able map editor. Given that SLADE has already been rewritten a couple of times, integrating scripting could help on multiple levels (forcing concentration on API design being just one).

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Ok, about time I replied to everything in this thread hehe, so here goes (ignoring the bug reports because i'm not gonna deliberately rewrite them in or anything :P)...

When I group select, and then move some stuff, it deselects the stuff I had selected, which can be a little annoying. It'd be better (imo) if the stuff you've selected stays selected until you deselect it yourself.

Hmm, that's actually not how it's meant to work, no idea how i didn't notice :P

When I'm drawing stuff and switching through modes, sometimes (by habit probably) I'll press space to insert something, like if I'm in line mode, start drawing lines, vertex mode, a new vertex, or thing mode, a new thing. But it just starts drawing lines. This is probably just personal preference though and I'm not sure if you can change it in the menu or something :P

Yeah that won't change, it's basically how SLADE works. Insert will create an object of the current editing mode type, space is the 'line draw' key and doesn't change with different editing modes.

I know it's been suggested before and is probably unlikely to happen, but a sector-based option like WadAuthor uses would be fantastic. I've never been able to get used to line drawing and hate not being able to select everything without switching modes all the time.

Yeah unfortunately to me an 'everything' editing mode seems like more effort to implement than it's worth, but we'll see. You can kind of create sectors the same way as in WA though, by using the sidebar (F2) to select a shape and creating the shape by pressing shift+space.

CodeImp was talking about having some sort of add-on architecture for Doom Builder 2, so that people could develop their own plug-ins for their own engines' features. If an engine implements slopes, 3D floors, portals, colored lighting, or whatever, its developers (or an informed user, I guess) could write an add-on to make those things editable in 3D mode.

I have no idea how to go about doing something like that, so prolly not. This time I hope to comment my code well so people won't have so much trouble modifying the code :P

Here's an idea that interests me (though not quite enough to begin my own editor) : include a built-in scripting language (LUA is pretty easy one to incorporate and to program with), and allow custom commands ('mods') to be created by users. With some simple primitives for inspecting and modifying the map, and for getting some input from the user, a lot of cool things could be done.

Some kind of scripting system has been planned for a while, I just never got around to starting it. But yeah it's definitely something I'd like to do.

- just like deth and DB allow people to make a custom item menu (for wads modifying the resources through dehacked)
- cant seem to find a way to select a bunch of items/vertex/linedefs/etc using the mouse and holding the left button (DB and DETH do that and its quite useful) IGNORE THIS ONE I FOUND SHIFT+MOUSE1 :D
- allow texture alignment finetuning using keys in 3dmode (just like DB)
- like deth : allow to build simple structures through menus (stairs, polygons,doors, lifts...)
- new thing that no editor has : allow to load premade structures from 'sample' PWADS. I have a bunch of little sample wads with premade structures with some special effects (invisible bridges, transparent doors, invisible rising stairs... ). This option would be great to implement custom premade structures w/o the hassle of copy/pasting.
- option to emulate DETH menus for items, linedefs, sidedefs and sectors. I became quit fond of its shortcut keys... and no longer require the use of the mouse for toggling them.

1) Already been answered by esselfortium
2) Heh
3) See 1
4) See 1 also (stairs can also be created, not lifts though, i'll keep that in mind)
5) That was planned and still is.
6) Not something that would be worth the effort IMO. Don't get me wrong, I know how quick the DETH menus were when you got used to them (I used DETH exclusively before creating SLADE, and pre-1.0 versions were actually very similar to it), it's just SLADE now works differently and has features that (for me) make editing even quicker & easier.

If users really have to modify the pk3 file just to add a new config, then I have another suggestion: MAKE IT EASIER.

It's easy enough. Just open the pk3 with SLumpEd and edit away ;) But yeah I know what you mean, I'm thinking next time I'll still have the base configs in the pk3, but allow custom 'addon' configs that users can have in folders. That way when the user updates SLADE his custom additions to configurations won't be overwritten.

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Any chance of Linux support? I think there was an old version that had some work done towards porting it, but that doesn't seem to be the case any more. Or maybe my memory is failing me again.

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Stilgar said:

Any chance of Linux support? I think there was an old version that had some work done towards porting it, but that doesn't seem to be the case any more. Or maybe my memory is failing me again.

Here's the svn for the Linux port:
http://slade.mancubus.net/svn/

I'm using it on Linux and it runs pretty well.

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I continue to get this crash on slade that freezes the program for no reason. This crash will happen at a random time too and it's really irritating. I've got the latest SVN and that Runtime thing.

I am using Windows 7 btw.

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