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Bloodshedder

Eternal Doom Returns from Oblivion

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Bloodshedder said:

...of course, since it's Eternal Doom, you get a lot more for your money per map ....

Money? Did someone say money? Nobody told me that there was a salary involved here. Sh*t, I'll have to see the boss about this. Heh.

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Bloodshedder said:

of course, since it's Eternal Doom, you get a lot more for your money per map


I've had to stop for food. I've been playing for hours now and I'm still not done.

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MikeRS said:

7 maps in 50MB? Holy shit, what engine does it require? It can't be vanilla... can it?



Most of the 50 MB are textures. I haven't checked yet but it wouldn't surprise me if a good resource cleaner could get rid of most of them.

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50MB? My copy is just over 41.

Graf Zahl said:

Most of the 50 MB are textures. I haven't checked yet but it wouldn't surprise me if a good resource cleaner could get rid of most of them.

After building GLnodes and then importing a syntax-fixed DECORATE lump, DeePSea did a cleanup of wasted space and the file size dropped by about 2MB and that was without removing any redundant textures or anything.

Looking through the resources, there are certainly a lot of textures that I don't think were used in game. I suspect the full Eternal resource was used "as is" and then added to with project specific textures.

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The moment I heard this was out I had to play Eternal III again. The reason is that 2-3 years ago I could never beat the final level "Excalibur" and gave up. I spent like 4 hours last night and I finally beat it! Stupid hidden switches! Anyone else actually beat level 30? I shall now play the demo of IV now that I've beaten III finally.

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Procrastination of gameplay be present on Espi's levels. I mean permanent respawn of monsters around after each third line I cross. I should spend hour for each room, heh. Architecture is great on both Espi's and ReX's levels.

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I was expecting large quantities of espisex in map27, and my expectations were exceeded by several million espipoints. Absolutely incredible in every imaginable way, I felt like I was looking at a Myst level.

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That invisible arch vile in the start kept me from seeing more of the Espi's map. *shrugs*

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entryway said:

Procrastination of gameplay be present on Espi's levels. I mean permanent respawn of monsters around after each third line I cross.

That sounds more like map11-13. Unplayable crap if you value your time.

Map27 OTOH was an hour well spent.

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Naan said:

That invisible arch vile in the start kept me from seeing more of the Espi's map. *shrugs*

Two ways to handle that: (i) enter Map27 after playing Map13 and use your superior weaponry to blaze through. OR (ii) Run past the initial shotgunners (you'll take a bit of damage) into the room beyond, pick up the DB shotgun on your way out the back door, collect some ammo that's back there, then return to the back door and pick the enemies off among their infighting.

Play Map27. Trust me, it's a unique DooM experience. And I've been playing and mapping for DooM long enough to know.

Belial said:

That sounds more like map11-13. Unplayable crap if you value your time.

Everybody's a fucking critic.

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ReX said:

Everybody's a fucking critic.

This one, however, has never had anything positive to say in all his time here. That he's tolerating Espi's map is a miracle in itself.

Anyway, glad to see you guys got this done and out, I'm still on a borrowed PC and don't have a case for my new stuff yet so I won't be able to play for a while. I'm looking forward to it though, especially being able to play Espi's map with a framerate greater than 4 - 10 fps :P

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ReX said:
Everybody's a fucking critic.

What's your point; "who are you to judge"? Besides, he's actually a pretty insightful tester and wad judge.

If someone (particularly with good playing skills) were to tell me there was something bad about a beta I just released, I'd be curious about what they found to be wrong, rather than telling them to shut up.

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Belial may be a valuable tester if you make maps that suit him.

However, beware if that isn't the case. Then his feedback won't be of much use.

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Finally, I have finished map12. Gamedesign and gameplay are incredible. Only thing which I did not like a little are arachnatrons with railgun. They kill me after 1.5 hour of play and I had to use RESSURECT cheat, because I do not use savegames anymore. Btw, I finished map08-map11 hub without saves and I died only once in the beginning and I even have a demo :)

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myk said:

If someone (particularly with good playing skills) were to tell me there was something bad about a beta I just released, I'd be curious about what they found to be wrong, rather than telling them to shut up.

Belial said:

That sounds more like map11-13. Unplayable crap if you value your time.


Yeah. Valuable input!
Also. Good playing skills? What the?

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myk said:

What's your point; "who are you to judge"? Besides, he's actually a pretty insightful tester and wad judge.

If someone (particularly with good playing skills) were to tell me there was something bad about a beta I just released, I'd be curious about what they found to be wrong, rather than telling them to shut up.

My point? Simply that it's easy for anyone to say that something is a piece of shit. He (as you) are entitled to your opinions. Likewise, I'm entitled to label someone who makes off-handed remarks "a fucking critic". Now, if he had been specific about what made it "unplayable crap", and said it in a manner that didn't deliberately try to offend, I would be more receptive. Furthermore, I can't believe that he didn't find something of redeeming value in the maps. People (certainly me) would take him more seriously if he provided some basis, however subjective, for his opinions. In the absence of any of the above, and the blatantly rude manner in which he presented his opinion, I called him a "fucking critic".

And don't give me any bullshit about how anyone is entitled to express his/her opinion on the Internet in any manner they please, and if someone doesn't like it they can shut the fuck up and unregister from the forums. Just because the medium facilitates the anonymous expression of opinions, however poorly considered, it does not mean that people need to behave like "fucking critics", occasionally known as assholes.

Incidentally, perhaps you believed I was telling him to shut up. On the contrary I was telling him to shut up if all he had to say was in a one-sentence diatribe. As for me, I doubt I'll be changing the way I map based on ungracious and offensive remarks that shed no light whatsoever on how I can improve. Particularly from someone who is not generally known for providing helpful comments.

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CodenniumRed said:

I liked it alot! I cleared out most of the levels but I have to find 2 of the rune symbols yet!!!! Actually, how far AREN'T I????

Each of the 3 maps has a rune symbol. After you have picked up all the weapons in the first map that you enter, you are free to leave that map and enter either of the 2 other maps. However, if you haven't found the rune switch in the first map you will get a message asking you if you really want to exit the map. This tells you that you haven't found the rune switch. Likewise, once you enter the second or third map after completing the first one you are free to exit at any time, but if you haven't found the rune switches you'll get the same message.

Are you sure you've "cleared out most of the levels"? Perhaps you're still on the first level that you entered. Or maybe you didn't read the messages about exiting without finding the rune switches? Please post the name of the map on which you found the switch, and I can give you some guidance on where the other 2 rune switches are.

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entryway said:

Only thing which I did not like a little are arachnatrons with railgun.

Yes, I agree. And even though you're referring to Chris' map, I shall keep that in mind and use them more sparingly in future maps.

entryway said:

Btw, I finished map08-map11 hub without saves and I died only once in the beginning and I even have a demo :)

I'd be interested in seeing your demo. You can PM me or email me at gurkha_boy AT yahoo.com.

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I'm not sure this is a wad for me. I haven't played it through. What I did do, though, was clip through it and explore the architecture. The way you have integrated slopes is really great. Slopes seem like a natural part of the architecture to an extent that I'm not really sure I've seen before. I tried to achieve it with rtc hub1, but this probably surpasses it. Great job on that! :)

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ReX said:

Furthermore, I can't believe that he didn't find something of redeeming value in the maps.

For me amazing architecture and texturing will never be enough to cover up gameplay as fundamentally flawed as it was in those 3 maps, unlike your hub where it helped in dealing with the sometimes overwhelming emptiness of some areas.

Would 'Scrap and rework the gameplay entirely' be a reasonable suggestion for you, or just an obviously unrealistic one as it is for me.

Unplayable crap gets the message through.

Lüt said:

That he's tolerating Espi's map is a miracle in itself.

lul

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Belial said:

For me amazing architecture and texturing will never be enough to cover up gameplay as fundamentally flawed as it was in those 3 maps, unlike your hub where it helped in dealing with the sometimes overwhelming emptiness of some areas.

Would 'Scrap and rework the gameplay entirely' be a reasonable suggestion for you, or just an obviously unrealistic one as it is for me.

Unplayable crap gets the message through.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere - some basis (however subjective) for the opinions. What did you find "fundamentally flawed" in the gameplay? Were there elements of gameplay that worked for you? Did you like the architecture and texturing (your reply implies that but does not expressly say so)? Aside from architecture and texturing were you at all impressed with the map design (i.e., connectivity and complexity of the maps)? Was there anything else about the maps that you liked?

You will likely not state this, so I will preface your remarks by adding that your gameplay preference is probably not representative of the mainstream of DooM players. You prefer maps that would be unimaginably difficult for average players. This undoubtedly colors some of your opinions regarding gameplay.

And no, "unplayable crap" did not get the message through for me, nor (seemingly) for several others.

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Like some posters before me, I'm also stuck in the first hub. Typically for TeamTNT releases, everything in sight is killed and I'm now left to wander aimlessly through emptied rooms in search for the switch or door I apparantly must have missed.

Some nitpicking: railgun spamming archnatrons, invisible monsters or always shotblocking monsters are just a bad design idea; and please space out the random ambient sounds so I don't have to hear them repeat every 4 seconds.

Annoyed beyond normal human comprehension by the aforementioned switchhunt, I've warped to Espi's map just to see what this talented mapper has come up with. Very nice to look at indeed judging from the first 15 minutes, but haven't properly played through it yet due to time constraints.

Too early to tell how it turns out; will try to give it some more time the next couple days.

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