Possible Megawad Idea - Dark Plutonia

[Butts]

i am unable to wait for this new speed megawad. its looking really good. i think 2500 hp is also a good health for afrits, maybe it should be 3000 i like a challenge
or you could make it fire like 8 imp balls scattered in direction too.

[Vegeta]

Not only free of afrits, just default DOOM 2 monsters. IMO also if there were new monsters there'd be a new boss. But nevermind, just lost my interest on this (nobody cares I know, I was just expressing my opinion).

[printz]

Butts said:

i think 2500 hp is also a good health for afrits, maybe it should be 3000 i like a challenge

OK, just don't get disappointed in the unlikely case I'd be making a ZDoom map and I'd give it afrits with only 800 HP (but with firecarpet).

OTOH, now I understand why Afrits are so loved in another thread. Because of the Scythe 2 mirage, it seems. Oh yeah, because as of now they're really the only high-hit point fliers. Now I really understand. There's no default high-end flier in Doom or the Bestiary.

[Death-Destiny]

@ Vegeta: The reason I'm so opposed to removing the Afrits (which I wouldn't do anyway, mind you) is that I'd need to create completely new maps if I did. In a quality map, the architecture and layout all work in unison with the monster choice and placement. If I remove the Afrits, neither map would play correctly since the architecture/layout were designed as though Afrits were in the map. Your opinion is valued, but you realize what you were asking though...

I'm not removing the Afrits, but I tried to make them play as fun as possible so people like you who don't like them might still be able to enjoy themselves playing against them if they don't go into the map like "I hate Afrits so this map sux". =/

Back on topic with the DECORATE-style Afrits, I do think that 800HP is appropriate if they have the Fire-carpet, which can easily get out-of-hand if the Afrit can't be killed relatively quickly. I just didn't think it's other attacks were very dangeous (The red baron fireball and the homing meteor.), which is why I like the Boom-style ones better. Hell Barons already fulfill the purpose of a high-hitpoint/low-threat enemy. In my opinion, a perfect Zdoom-style Afrit would have 800HP, the Fire-carpet, and a Boom-style fireball spread for its main attack, but without the homing missiles since I don't expect that would work well with the Fire-carpet.

[Belial]

Personally I liked DV2's 1500hp afrit's best, they could be used in greater numbers without feeling overpowered and still be harder to BFG than the usual baron.

[Death-Destiny]

I'm sad right now and I'll tell you why. =(

Doombuilder has been having a really annoying glitch for me. Whenever I try to save a map, I am occasionally greeted with this ridiculous error message:

"Error 5 while saving map: Invalid procedure call or argumant."

It doesn't realize there's an error until it deletes the map in preparation to write the newer data, which leaves me with an empty memory location in the WAD file. In otherwords, trying to save my map is functionally the same as deleting it. And I can't save my map frequently just in case since saving is the functional equivalent of deleting it. =(

I recently upgraded to Windows Vista and I know this is a result of the inherant incompatibility between it and Doom Builder. Vista is much more useful for things that are relevant to real life, so I can't downgrade, and I'd hate to give up my favorite map editor. =(

The thing is, this error only occurs every now and again, maybe once every 30 saves. I know that computers can't do things randomly, so there must be some sort of trigger for this error. Does anyone know what this is or a setup to prevent it? It's afflicted every map in DP except map17, so I've got a folder full of hundreds of backups and copies to be one the safe side, making this more of an annoyance than anything, but one day I'm going to mis-click something and have one of my best maps taken away from me. I just about lost "One-Thousand Adversaries" to it, in which event I'd have been so crushed that I'd have literally quit DP. =(

I've searched around unsuccessfully for a solution, so if anyone has encountered this problem and found one, I'd *REALLY REALLY" appreciate it. =D

[Butts]

HERE IS THE SOLUTION


what you have to do is go to your task manager, go to processes, find explorer.exe which is the windows explorer, and you click on that then end process. your desktop will become blank, but the cure is go to tasks, then start new tasks, then type explorer.exe to get it back. but to save maps safely and do the whole doom builder bug free is to disable explorer.

[printz]

When? To do that when the error appears, or anytime, Butts?

Death-Destiny, if all else fails, switch to DETH (by using DOSBox). Alien Vendetta was made mostly with DETH.

[Butts]

you have to do that all the time with vista otherwise that error will appear and it happens if you try to go into 3d mode too.

[Doom Marine]

Belial said:

Personally I liked DV2's 1500hp afrit's best, they could be used in greater numbers without feeling overpowered and still be harder to BFG than the usual baron.

Yah me too, heh.

The logic behind 1500hp:

Hell Knight = 500hp
Baron = 1000hp
Flying Red Barons = 1500hp

It's Death-Destiny's decision to give the Afrit whatever hp and stats he pleases, since his monster placement in conjunction with his levels have yet to be seen, so whatever suggestions we have concerning the his Afrit is based on pure speculation. 2500 hp works in some situations, I won't be too specific, but DD'll know what to do.

[Shanoa]

hehe if you remove the Afrits it will remove at the same time the unique side of DP as we all know Afrits doesnt exist in Plutonia so having them in DP is a must <333

Also nice progress Death...ur a mapmaker god **

[Kira]

Death-Destiny said:

In a quality map, the architecture and layout all work in unison with the monster choice and placement.

Exactly, go Death-Destiny !

[Death-Destiny]

Let's continue, shall we?

Update: The next map in Dark Plutonia is now essentially complete. The map I re-interptreted today was map01. That was the map with the arch-vile guarding the SSG in the crate maze. It had a bunch of extra revenants on multiplayer,

There were several thing that I wanted to do for the first map. Map01 is special. It is the first thing that the player will see in the WAD, so I'd better be good. If the first map is excellent, that will set the tone and make a good impression for the project. If it's bad, on the other hand, the player will have a bad taste in their mouth even if the next level is quite good.

The other thing that I wanted to do is ensure that the player knows what they're getting into difficulty-wise. For this reason, map01 has one of the largest variances between skill levels compared to other DP maps. I don't want players to start on skill4 thinking they can do it since there are minimal differences in skill, then die repeatedly on say map07, where the skill level is much more important. (Not a problem for us pistol-starting, IDCLEV-ing guys, but people who play straight through won't like that.)

Thematically, this map is very similar to the original, maybe not as mono-textured. It's somewhat harder that the original, but not overly so. This version is titled "River of Mud" and you can probably tell why from the screenies. I was originally planning to call this "Nile" like Artillery suggested, but decided to use a more generic name. Time = no problem. Still. I've definitely gotten better at mapping. =)

Ah! Yes. The screenies. Right...: [Outdated]
Behold the ultimate SSG crate maze! It would be blasphemous not to put a crate maze in DP's first map!
Here's the start area...
...and here's the rocket gun. I wonder what you have to do for it this time. Hmmm...

I guess you get an extra screenie since I wanted to show you the entire crate maze. Lucky you. ;)

This brings us to 17/32, 53% completion. It's all downhill from this point.

[Kira]

The texturing is cool, nice screens ¦)

[Shanoa]

Nice work once again Death...the cybie looks menacing >=D

[Lizardcommando]

That looks really cool. I love the texturing work you did.

[Artillery]

Wow, great! Now you've covered all of my favorite plutonia levels (01, 08, 16, 29, 14), and, from the screens they look as good or even better than the originals (maps 01 and 16 somehow tickle my curiosity the most).

Now you can go and recreate those dull levels like 28, 26, 22, 12, and make them atleast bearable.

Just kidding, keep up the great work, I believe your megawad will come just right!

P.S. I don't think DD ever dreamt this project would become so big and get so much interest from players. Now, that was a good mapping move.

[Death-Destiny]

Update: The next map in Dark Plutonia is now essentially complete. The map I remade this time was map02 (my randomization box needs to get with the program... the levels shouldn't be in order. What?) That was the one with the hallway full of switches. It has an invisible bridge at the end.

This map had no Arch-viles, Mancubi, or Arachnotrons... hmmm. Let's just say you'll be very afraid of chaingunners and revenants if you have yet to play CC2 map28 or AV map29 respectively (You know what I mean. =P) Don't worry, the other weakling enemies get some play time as well. This map seems somewhat Plutonia-ish.

Here's the screenies of DP map02, the "Wraithglen": [Outdated]
I made areas like this to simulate epicness... don't worry, this level is still standard length.
The canyon near the end...
And a part of the switch-hallway


I've got some things to take care of, so no more maps 'til next weekend at the earliest... sorry. =(

And ->18/32, 56% Completion.

[Kira]

Look promising as always, great job DD !!!
At each map do you show us I'm more excited about the whole crap :D

[Artillery]

Ahhhh, the Well of souls. That happy-looking map with annoying gameplay. The design seems to be just the way it should. Having some areas similar to the original to remind you of the originals, but relocating everything and improving it.

Hope there will be enough ammo this time, and that we won't have as many annoying fights where distant monsters snipe at the helpless player. Oh wait, the DDs description just implies that we will.

[Shanoa]

hehe great work once again DD

[Mechadon]

Excellent stuff! I'd say The Well of Souls was one of my favorite Plutonia maps...can't wait to try this variant out :D

[Lizardcommando]

Same here. Well of Souls was one of my favorites too.

[printz]

Artillery said:

and that we won't have as many annoying fights where distant monsters snipe at the helpless player.

I only recall ONE such encounter and it works out fine if you're lucky to have enough ammo and health.

[Kira]

Man I've a fucking crazy idea : when 'Plutonia 2' will be released make 'Dark Plutonia 2' and speedclone our work, YAY !

[Tango]

You're awesome :)

[gggmork]

I finally beat your map 10 (pistol start, uv, no saving) of DR2008.WAD :). Recommended for people waiting for dark plutonia.

[Death-Destiny]

You can stop holding your breath... Death-Destiny is back at last with the next update! =D

Update: The next map in Dark Plutonia is now essentially complete. I did map18 this time. That was the "Inmost Dens"-espue map (I just want to point out that I don't get the "Inmost Dens" cloning fad. Not that I have a problem with it... I liked it and all its clones, but I'm just saying =/) There were a bunch of extra archies at the end on multiplayer.

DP's version I guess follows the Plutonia-style "Inmost Dens" design. Since I had plenty of extra time, I went ahead and added an extra area only accessible on co-op (Multiplayer needs some goodness, too!) There's a lot of arch-viles on this one, but it shouldn't be unmanagable.

I just realized how far along DP is at this point. With the addition of this map, there are 5 speedcloned maps in a row now, and when I win a map in playtesting, the next is likely to be one of mine also. It feels good having done map01 and getting to see my work when I load DP alongside Plutonia.

And of course I return with screenies. i was going to call the map "Necrosphere" to keep with the "N--rosphere" sound, but I think Dutch-Devil wants to use that name in the megawad he plans to release in a decade or so (JK, Dutch-Devil =P.) Anyway, DP's map is titled "Neurosis": [Outdated]
Behold the semi-Classic goodness of this style!
Your odds don't look too great here... >=D
And a more cramped indoor area.

gggmork said:

I finally beat your map 10 (pistol start, uv, no saving) of DR2008.WAD :). Recommended for people waiting for dark plutonia.

I'm glad that the map provided a good challenge. I'm impressed you were able to win with these conditions (Of course I can do it... that's how I playtest all my maps for fairness, but then I'm much more skilled than most people I know. =P Wow, that sounded conceited...) Let me know if anyone can finish "Lich" in the same way... even I have trouble with that one.

K!r4 said:

Man I've a fucking crazy idea : when 'Plutonia 2' will be released make 'Dark Plutonia 2' and speedclone our work, YAY !

That sounds like fun! I take it from what I can tell so far that P2 maps are larger and more detailed than what I'm speedcloning now, but it's an interesting idea for something I might do in the distant future; at least a few maps anyhow.

Can't forget this... 19/32, 60% completion. Like I said, we're getting there quickly!

[Mechadon]

Looks like the second screenshot will make me go into the fetal position and cry myself to death. In a good way.

[the iron hitman]

Heh. 5 arch-viles, few revenants, some sergeants and arachnotrons....should be a walk in the park :P
*Sarcastic mode off*

These are really nice classic maps. It really gives that "classic doom" feeling about it :D Keep up the good work