freedoom 32in24

[Jon]

Some people suggested we take a 32in24 approach to getting the freedoom levels done.

I think this is a good idea, and fraggle does too it seems: we need to talk a bit about it, but I thought I'd start the thread (as advised) and see what people think.

[andrewj]

I think 24 hours is not long enough to produce good single player maps. 32in24 works well for DM maps because the maps can be small and there is no monsters to place (once you come up with a decent layout you can spend the rest of the time detailing). Perhaps a week?

[Edward850]

Ajapted said:

Perhaps a week?

32in168?

[Jim Rainer]

I may be able to get something made for this.

[myk]

Given the billions of existing levels that are pretty much free or potentially so, what about asking authors to donate or submit levels they have already made?

It's not like with the resources, where you really need to create stuff that is undoubtedly free.

[leileilol]

myk said:

Given the billions of existing levels that are pretty much free or potentially so, what about asking authors to donate or submit levels they have already made?

where's the fun in that?

[GreyGhost]

Mapping can be fun? I didn't know that! :-)

32in168? Why not. Maybe 32in720 - so long as everyone's aware that there's a deadline. Otherwise the project could drag on until the release of Doom 5 - or beyond.

EDIT - Grammar.

[fraggle]

I really think that a "drive" like this to get a bunch of levels done would be a good idea. Freedoom has really stagnated in the past few years, and it would be nice to get some interest in it going again.

One thing that the 32in24 guys did mention was that they aren't too good on single player maps; they apparently focus mainly on deathmatch levels, while their single player efforts have been less successful in the past. It should be obvious that there's a lot more effort involved in making a single player WAD than a deathmatch one: the levels are bigger, more complex and you have to worry about issues like monster and item placement a lot more.

A week or a month might be a good target for a drive like this. We should also make a commitment to make a release immediately after it finishes: having a deadline for people to submit by will encourage them to get their levels done sooner. What GreyGhost mentions in the post above mine is a real issue, and one that Freedoom suffers from a lot.

Another idea that came up was to revive FreeDM. Currently we only have about 5-6 FreeDM levels, and the ones we do have need some serious work done to them. This would only need a standard 32in24-style drive.

[exp(x)]

I have a question about FreeDM. Is it always going to be a standalone wad, or are you going to combine it with the Freedoom iwad? You could have two completely separate parts of the map: the single player part with player 1-4 starts and the DM part with deathmatch starts. That way, the "map" you play would depend on your mode.

[leileilol]

exp(x) said:

That way, the "map" you play would depend on your mode.

yes let's drive up the linedefs for two maps in one and make the requirements higher.

[Jon]

exp(x) said:

I have a question about FreeDM. Is it always going to be a standalone wad, or are you going to combine it with the Freedoom iwad? You could have two completely separate parts of the map: the single player part with player 1-4 starts and the DM part with deathmatch starts. That way, the "map" you play would depend on your mode.

What advantages would that bring -- I suppose it would mean just one IWAD... but it would cause some pretty big logistic problems with map editing etc.

[exp(x)]

I dunno, I just thought it would be cool to have a universal iwad. I don't see how it'd be that much harder to edit other than keeping sector tags straight.

[Patrick]

i like the idea... but longer perhaps? quality maps are hard to make in a day

[Jim Rainer]

Been working on this map for over a month, so it doesn't really fit with the 32inX format, but I think it could be pretty useful.
http://www.freewebs.com/3dpicturesos/freedoom32inxmap.zip
I'm pretty content with how this turned out. A hell of a lot better than my first map. Judging by the difficulty and size of the map, I'd suggest this be put in the upper teens or higher.

[andrewj]

Jon said:

What advantages would that bring -- I suppose it would mean just one IWAD... but it would cause some pretty big logistic problems with map editing etc.

Nah just write a tool to merge the two separate maps when building the final IWAD.

[Jon]

Ajapted said:

Nah just write a tool to merge the two separate maps when building the final IWAD.

If we did do this that's definitely the approach I'd take.

I've got a few similar post-processing tools in mind, such as one where in the map editor you'll tag all the sectors that you want to change the colormap for with a unique value, and the tool will build the property-transfer sectors for you and sort all that out.

[Catoptromancy]

32in24-5 style mapping for FreeDM I think would be a good idea, for a separate Iwad. The singleplayer maps are already mostly done, we dont really need a rush on those.

I am currently making demos of all the maps, to make sure they are beatable/have exits. My high estimate is that only 6-7 are unfinished/unbeatable.
People make good maps all the time, singleplayer maps should not be a problem. Freedoom really needs sprites much more than maps.

[Patrick]

exp(x) said:

You could have two completely separate parts of the map: the single player part with player 1-4 starts and the DM part with deathmatch starts. That way, the "map" you play would depend on your mode.

EDIT: oops, i meant to put that adding the FreeDM maps to the FreeDoom maps would be a good idea, but doing it 32in24 style just doesn't work.

[Jon]

Janitor said:

You've either missed the point of the follow-ups, or missed your reply :)

[Macro11_1]

I know you guys are still discussing it... but I would just like to say that I would be up for something like this :)
Something has to be said about the energy and focus that this event seems to bring. It seems that people like to map as a group... I don't know, its just cool.
Anyways, would this be announced in the news when you all finally get it sorted out?

[Jon]

Macro11_1 said:

Anyways, would this be announced in the news when you all finally get it sorted out?

Sure. We haven't discussed it apart from this thread yet - when we do I'll let you know.

[Macro11_1]

One thing to discuss would be how to do it. Would it be replacing existing levels? That would be a shame...

Would some one make up a list of open level slots... and very sub-par maps...? (my own map04 in the freedoom2.iwad would be a good candidate to replace)

Are we waiting on textures and sprites and the ilk?

What are we waiting on really... are we waiting on you Jon to sort out the website and listings of whats done//not done? Waiting for you to find a free day to do it? I'm just posting this because I want to see (as with alot of people here) some energy behind this project again. :)

Sorry if i'm stepping on any toes.

[Jon]

Macro11_1 said:

Sorry if i'm stepping on any toes.

Don't apologise - toes really need stepping on.

I've been trying to get 30 mins or so with fraggle on IRC to discuss this (oftc #doom-tech for the curious) but I haven't managed yet.

[Macro11_1]

Bump.

Just wanting to keep the topic fresh...
Is there any way I could help out right now to see this get done?

[Jim Rainer]

Making a map or two comes to mind.

[RestlessRodent]

Putting DM levels and normal levels together on a single level can cause problems. Some source ports will spawn at Player Starts when no deathmatch starts are available and vice versa So you can end up with players in the deathmatch arena when they shouldn't be there!

[Macro11_1]

Jim Rainer said:

Making a map or two comes to mind.

True... but I have made a map. I might make another one later... but what I am interested in is what this thread seems to pertain to... and thats making a 32in24 type wad for Free-Doom. I want to know what the most effective thing I could be doing to help out with that is.
[Edit]
So according to the Source Forge.net Repository, all the textures and flats and even most of the sprites and graphics are done. (not including high rez versions)
5 maps are abandoned, and 7 assigned and one open slot. Hell yes I would be willing to make another map. Just have to chose one....

Anyways, after seeing this... then what is the hold up on making a 32in24 type project? Unless I am reading all of this wrong.

[exp(x)]

GhostlyDeath said:

Putting DM levels and normal levels together on a single level can cause problems. Some source ports will spawn at Player Starts when no deathmatch starts are available and vice versa So you can end up with players in the deathmatch arena when they shouldn't be there!

Just give them a rocket launcher and let them figure out what to do :P

[Shaikoten]

Sorry for the bump, but I just noticed this. Being a freedoom fan, and having run a great deal of 32in24 style projects (seeing how I "invented" 32in24 and all) perhaps I can provide some advice as to how to adapt the concept of 32in24 to Freedoom map production. If someone could make a list of "needs" and "wants" regarding FreeDM maps, I can try to determine the most reasonable course of action, given what works and doesn't work, in my experience.

From what I've found, the 32in24 approach doesn't work excessively well with single player maps, but this is a problem I'm working on solving. Just let me know what needs to be done, and I'll see how I can give a hand, perhaps we can get the usual crew behind contributing.

[Tango]

Yeah, if this were to happen I'd like to contribute :)