Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
helbuns

Doom 2 to IDtech4??

Recommended Posts

alright i just registared and dont know anything but love doom... so is there any projects that involve updating doom2 to the open IDtech4 engine? i dont know how it would be done or anything but to keep levels and just extend them so its more a doom2 gears of war thing (graphics and movements) maybe stupid questions just interested.

Share this post


Link to post

they made doom1 episode 1 to doom3 engine. They did not have the permission from ID Software to make episode 2 and 3 for the doom3 engine. (Only the free demo/shareware episode was permitted to clone to doom3)

If Doom1 epi2 and epi3 are not permitted, i am 100% sure doom2 isnt permitted.

Share this post


Link to post
steuntron said:

they made doom1 episode 1 to doom3 engine. They did not have the permission from ID Software to make episode 2 and 3 for the doom3 engine. (Only the free demo/shareware episode was permitted to clone to doom3)


If by "they" you mean the team that made Classic Doom 3, then your explanations are wrong. The reason they didn´t remake the other episodes was simply because they didn´t find the time to do so.

They didn´t mechanically convert the original Doom maps to Doom3, they rebuild them from scratch, and that´s perfectly legal. They could have continued in the same way to rebuild the other episodes, without getting legal trouble.

Share this post


Link to post

Tetzlaff said:
They didn´t mechanically convert the original Doom maps to Doom3, they rebuild them from scratch, and that´s perfectly legal.

Your reasoning is not valid, because a design directly based on another design is derivative, and thus (at least in the US, where id is from) only legal if the original creator gives the okay. Putting effort or creativity into a derivative work does not make it an original work.

Id Software may not care (or even like the idea) and may have given a silent "okay" to the project (or an explicit one, if they have stated anything about it), but if they were given reasons to, they could raise a copyright infringement case for such projects.

Share this post


Link to post
myk said:

Your reasoning is not valid, because a design directly based on another design is derivative, and thus (at least in the US, where id is from) only legal if the original creator gives the okay. Putting effort or creativity into a derivative work does not make it an original work.

Id Software may not care (or even like the idea) and may have given a silent "okay" to the project (or an explicit one, if they have stated anything about it), but if they were given reasons to, they could raise a copyright infringement case for such projects.

Indeed, but I highly doubt that id Software would want to bother with such a thing. They've never made a stink about any infringing Doom mods or conversions before, to my knowledge, and have pretty much kept completely out of everything to avoid discouraging the modding community that keeps their old (and new) games alive. I'm not saying that it's right or legal, but I would be extremely surprised if id took any legal action over this, especially considering the age of the original maps they're based on and the fact that they're being remade for another game that id themselves are responsible for the creation of.

Share this post


Link to post

If I'm not mistaken, they stopped a (from scratch) Quake mod that intended to bring together the characters/creatures from most or all the (then) current id games. Something starting with Y... I don't remember the name.

In any case, what steuntron said about the Classic Doom 3 team being less sure about making the other episodes due to potential legal complications is listed as one of the reasons they only did E1 in the project's Mod DB page.

Share this post


Link to post

The mods they stopped (that I heard of) were Generations for Quake2, and Reborn for Quake3.

Only mod for Quake starting with Y that I can think of is YPOD. Which I believe wasn't stopped, neither did it involved any but the Doom stuff.

I think they didn't bother to stop Classic Doom, since it would have been like shooting themselves in the foot, since the mod would probably gain them more than it would ever hurt them. Or they just don't care since it's been done before, and there's several other mods for doom3 that did it aswell, and in those casese it was more of plagiarizing and ripping than merely basing the designs and layouts off of the original levels.

Share this post


Link to post
myk said:

Your reasoning is not valid, because a design directly based on another design is derivative, and thus (at least in the US, where id is from) only legal if the original creator gives the okay.


I don´t know much (if anything) about US copyright laws, but I learned it directly from a member of the Classic Doom3 mod, that the reason they stopped continue to develop the mod beyond Episode1 had nothing to do with copyright reasons.

There are dozens of from scratch remakes of all the Quake1 deathmatch maps for Quake 3 Arena (I collected them all), so I had the impression they were okay from a legal standpoint. There is even this very popular Campgrounds (Q3 map) remake for UT2003 / UT2004. But maybe it´s just like you say, id Software just tolerates this cases? But from what I experienced from all the past years with mods, id Software always made a difference between straight rips (using a conversion tool to convert levels, ripping original sounds and textures to include in the mod etc.) and remakes (creating something from scratch inspired by something from id).

The case with Genertaions for Quake2 was just that:

Conversion of popular maps from Wolf, Doom, and Quake
...
Orignal sounds from the games

Source: http://generations.planetquake.gamespy.com/features.html

While on the other Generations Arena for Quake3 didn´t get any legal trouble, because they create everything from scratch. But all the stuff is directly based on original Wold3D/Doom/Q1/Q1 designs. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.wireheadstudios.org/generations/

Some background info about the previous Generations mod from their side:

Q2Gen released two major versions, the latter of which contained all four classes. However, shortly after release, the team contacted id Software about the mod. The news was not comforting. Q2Generations was, as it stood, illegal. The team had converted models, sounds, levels, and graphics from Wolf3D, Doom, and Quake over to the Q2 engine. These conversions were not allowed, since they were technically theft of id's intellectual property.


Then when they made Q3 Generations Arena, they tried to keep it all legal:

One year after Q2:Generations closed its doors, WireHead Studios announced its successor to the Generations legacy, Generations Arena. After a year of legal research and inquiry, WireHead was certain it had developed a mod design that would fufill all of the fun of Q2:Generations, while remaining completely legal.


So is this derivative work and therefore illegal, as you say, or not?

Share this post


Link to post

Before Phobos became a three-episode mega-adventure, we had some sketchy plans (or at least I did) for revisiting the earth location with emphasis on Doom2's levels, style and storyline. If that will ever happen is unknown, though.

Share this post


Link to post

Your Phobos mod is has still my highest anticipation of all the upcoming Doom3 mods. Because the screens look promising and I expect good gameplay for once... no trigger-spawn-trigger-spawn-repeat and no corridor-room-corridor linearity :)

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you :)
We haven't been very good at updating, and have been out for 26 months, but we are preparing a rather big update and relaunch of our website. It's not that we have been completely unwilling to update, we've just found it best to focus on producing something. The project is much further than it was back in February 2006 (the last update). I'm glad you believe that it will be a fun mod. I assure you that it is one of our key focuses. We have several points that we believe will push forward the genre. We are, at the same time, bringing more of the old doom games' features into game alongside some completely new aspects. It's very exciting to work on :)

Share this post


Link to post

By the way. Idtech5 is a MUCH better platform for a Doom2 type of game than Idtech4 (The Doom3 engine. Damn that idtech naming convention!). Doom4 will use Idtech5 (or so it seems. Who knows, perhaps it will be the first Idtech6 game). Doom4 also just happens to be a Doom2 retelling....as far as we can tell.

Oh and Doom3: Phobos will receive an update this month, most likely. The first in 31 months :P

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×