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Nemark

Looking for some rare Chris Klie levels.

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As I'm sure most of you know, Chris Klie was one of the authors of the Master Levels for Doom II. He made 6 of the 20 WADs and I personally enjoyed them quite a bit. As it turns out, Chris Kile originally submitted 12 levels to id for the Master Levels project, but only 6 were accepted. One of these levels is readily available on the idgames archive (The C.P.U.: http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=13982 ) Sadly, the other 5 are not. Their names are:

the_fury.wad
the_dmz.wad
device_1.wad
the_hive.wad
e_inside.wad

These WADs were packaged into a file called CDKSTUFF.ZIP on CompuServe's Action Games Forum back in the day, but is also pretty much impossible to find. If anyone knows where I can get these WADs or you have them and would like to send them to me, please let me know. Thanks.

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This is about as close as I could get while searching for cdkstuff. Of course the ZIP files aren't in the Internet Archive...

Maybe I'll PM M8. in the thread referenced by Artillery; after reading about these levels I'm interested in seeing them myself.

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I think he's more interested on them for historic and gameplay value. While now average in terms of architecture, they look clean and have a solid gameplay that matches E1 or Plutonia on these variables.

I once thought to compile all non comercial wads made by authors that work or worked for id, then if the txt file allows it, edit them to fit today's standards and create some kind of mission pack.

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Vegeta said:

I once thought to compile all non comercial wads made by authors that work or worked for id, then if the txt file allows it, edit them to fit today's standards and create some kind of mission pack.


Hehe, if you have the willpower, good luck. I'd be curious to see what you've come up with.

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Artillery said:


I've tried Googling the names of each individual WAD as well as the compilation ZIP and even different variations of the author's name and still found nothing but dead links. I also came across that thread multiple times and PM'd both the topic creator as well as M8 but it seems like they haven't been around in a few months.

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I beleive textfiles.com has folders of old shovelware "Stuff 4 ur computar" CD's which contain wads, you could try one of those, though it will be a trawl without a search function. Also Funduke's probably been at them and uploaded all the "missing" ones to the archive

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No, not a problem with the servers. That one was removed because it is a commercial wad.

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The Lost Episodes were marketed by Sybex - along with a 250 page book.
It turns up on eBay occasionally - some sellers offer the book without the floppy so watch out.

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IIRC Chris Klie's Lost Episode levels are simply his Chris_E1 levels anyway (and are also available in ChrisK and BF_Thud!).

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Grazza said:

No, not a problem with the servers. That one was removed because it is a commercial wad.


OK Cool. Never mind... Thanks for the heads up.

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NiGHTMARE said:

IIRC Chris Klie's Lost Episode levels are simply his Chris_E1 levels anyway (and are also available in ChrisK and BF_Thud!).

There's also Chrisk21, Chrisk22, Chrisk23 and what was E1M9 in Chris_E1 before being removed.

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Still no luck :( I tried sending e-mails to the person who uploaded The C.P.U. with no luck. He's also interested in these levels. I even sent e-mails to the two e-mails associated with Christen Klie that I could find from his WADs in the archives but neither of them work. I'm still waiting for a response from M8. or gothic251 from that old thread.

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I just recently bought and played all the Master Levels off Steam (I hadn't seen all of them before) and I wasn't even impressed by the Chris Klie levels in there. Sverre Andre Kvernmo's are easily the best, with challenging gameplay progression, innovative environments and a great story. Chris Klie's levels were simpler and didn't actually feel like anywhere, which is a step back from Doom's episodes which actually feel like tech bases and hell. Now, if the Chris Klie levels you're looking for were rejected from inclusion in the master levels, that doesn't say a lot for their quality does it? I understand that you want to complete a collection, but gameplay-wise, you're not missing anything.

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Creaphis, I'm sorry you didn't like my submissions to the Master Levels. The designs were kept deliberately simple in an attempt to emulate the work id had done up until that time, and in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience (I was targeting lower-end systems in hopes of reaching more players overall).

With respect to the rejected Master-Levels submissions, those levels were rejected mainly due to time constraints. Shawn was focused on other work, and didn't have time to fully review the submissions. As I recall, only two were rejected due to quality concerns (and, in retrospect, I agree they should have been rejected): The Enemy Inside (e_inside.wad) and Device One.

Anyway, we all need to start somewhere, right? And I learned a lot from my experiences working on the Master Levels.

- Chris Klie.

P.S. If anyone is still looking for my old freeware levels, just send me a PM with your e-mail address, and I'll be happy to forward the levels to you.

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Mapslinger said:

P.S. If anyone is still looking for my old freeware levels, just send me a PM with your e-mail address, and I'll be happy to forward the levels to you.

I did so just a few minutes ago. Looking forward to it!

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I always forget that the people who worked on Doom actually still exist and communicate. My apologies, Chris, if you were offended by my quick rejection of these maps of yours. I've just always preferred a more modern mapping style and I tend to assume that others share my tastes.

Would you object to having these maps uploaded to /idgames? This topic will probably just keep popping up every few months unless someone does that.

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Creaphis,

I didn't take offense at all to your comments. I don't expect everyone to like everything I do, nor did I expect time to stand still after 1995. I know WAD development has come a long way, and I can totally respect gamers preferring a more modern approach.

In answer to your question, I wouldn't object at all to having my old stuff uploaded to /idgames. Sorry if this seems like a training-wheel question, but I've been away from the community for a long time... What's the best way of making that happen? Should I simply visit id's site?

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Mapslinger said:

Creaphis,

I didn't take offense at all to your comments. I don't expect everyone to like everything I do, nor did I expect time to stand still after 1995. I know WAD development has come a long way, and I can totally respect gamers preferring a more modern approach.

In answer to your question, I wouldn't object at all to having my old stuff uploaded to /idgames. Sorry if this seems like a training-wheel question, but I've been away from the community for a long time... What's the best way of making that happen? Should I simply visit id's site?

All the info you need to upload your wads to the idgames archive can be found here:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/31922-newstuff-faq-read-this/
It's best to upload each wad in a zip file (8 character name or less) with the wad and textfile inside. Idgames textfile generator is here, just fill in the blanks and you're good to go.

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Yay! I knew if I was vigilant in my quest for these levels, I'd see them eventually. And from the maps’ creator no less.

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Seek and ye shall find - ask, and it shall be given you. :-)
I'll be loitering around /newstuff waiting for the maps to materialise.

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Mapslinger said:

- Chris Klie.


Hey, nice to see you here. I love the Master Levels. If you still have all your free ware maps, I'd like to ask you to upload them all in a zip file, specially these that were rejected in the add-on.

Here are some questions I always wanted to ask to one of the authors of the mod. Hope not to disturb you.

-What was the criteria to decide how many maps would be included from each author?
-Did you were all payed the same, or that varied according to the number of included maps (don't need to tell how much they payed you).
-Was it initially supposed to be played as a megawad? I ask this as one of your maps (The Catwalk) has a secret area near the exit with a lot of stuff that's useless unless you add another map after it.
-Do you know or remember the order maps from the different authors were supposed to be played? I'm specially curious on Kvernmo and Anderson's maps (on these I guess Visperas is the last map).

Cheers

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Hey, Vegeta.

Glad you enjoyed the Master Levels. With regard to my freeware stuff, I'm planning on uploading everything this weekend. I need to take time to put together new .txt and .zip files, and I want to make certain I'm in compliance with Doomworld's upload policies.

In answer to your questions (based on my scant recollection of what happened many, many... many years ago):

1. id accepted as many maps as an author could submit - provided id had time to review them, and provided the maps met quality standards. I seem to recall id wanting to publish 20 maps in total, but that might not have been a hard figure.

2. We were all paid a flat-rate fee for each map. Same fee across the board.

3. It wasn't clear until the end of development whether the Master Levels would be presented as a mega-wad or as stand-alone levels. I personally was hoping they'd be combined into a mega-wad.

4. Apologies, as I don't recall what the other authors' intentions were regarding map order. I'm pretty sure Sleep had an order in mind for his levels, and I know I had an order in mind for Subspace and Subterra - which were to have been followed by a map called Subderma, which I didn't get time to make.

I hope these answers are helpful.

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I don't think that Kvernmo's levels in their current form were meant to be played in any particular order. I imagine that if he had built the entire megawad (which was his original goal, according to the text file) it may have been built in mini-episodes, with each fight against a council member being an episode conclusion, and then map order would of course be important. But, the maps that he made definitely don't lead directly into eachother, and their only common thread is the story behind them.

Anderson's text files number the levels as "cantos" from the third canto to the seventh canto. The first and second canto aren't in the master levels, but they're probably both in /idgames - his second canto is the very first level in Doomworld's 10 Years "100 Best Wads" feature. Anyways, if you follow those numbers, you could treat that as the order to play the maps in. However, I don't think order really matters with these maps either, as the absurd stories in the text files don't match the level environments whatsoever - there's really no common narrative in the levels themselves.

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There are multiple revisions of the first two canto's in the archive.
As far as I know - they weren't submitted for inclusion in the Master Levels because they were already in the public domain freely distributable.


EDIT - silly mistake corrected.

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GreyGhost said:
public domain.

Just for clarity, "public domain" means utterly free to use in any way by anyone; WADs are still copyrighted to the author, and id claims WADs for their games are derivative (thus proprietary).

I'm guessing freely available WADs weren't included because id wanted to make sure users got new stuff for their money (in addition to the extra Maximum DOOM collection).

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Okay, I blew the dust off the old levels, and I managed to get them uploaded as of this morning. Currently, they're in /idgames/newstuff, and the filenames are as follows:

cpu.zip
device_1.zip
dmz.zip
e_inside.zip
fury.zip
hive.zip

It's funny. When I built these it didn't occur to me they'd be "ancient history" someday. :-)

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Mapslinger said:

It's funny. When I built these it didn't occur to me they'd be "ancient history" someday. :-)


Yeah, that's a dubious honour if I've ever seen one.

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