Whispers of Satan RELEASED!

[40oz]

map29 isn't very coop friendly I should add. the bars lower behind the colored key gate after the player enters it, which makes it unable to be accessed again if the player dies alone in there. The walkover line that locks the gate should probably lock after the key is picked up.

[punnyone]

Finally finished it. This is one of the best megawads I have ever played, and I definitely plan to replay it. Map 28 was one of the most atmospheric levels I have ever played. From the location to the creepy music, it was perfect.

[pcorf]

40oz said:

map29 isn't very coop friendly I should add. the bars lower behind the colored key gate after the player enters it, which makes it unable to be accessed again if the player dies alone in there. The walkover line that locks the gate should probably lock after the key is picked up.

Thanks for your comments again.

MAP29 is not very good in multiplayer and was designed for singleplayer. It was a very difficult design to execute. It took me 2 months to make this mammoth of a map!

Single Player : Designed for
Cooperative 2-4 Player : Player starts only (tested with 2 players)
Deathmatch 2-4 Player : Player starts only

But WOS really isn't designed for cooperative mode. Kristian tested it in Coop. But if you want me to make MAP29 more coop compatible I would have to do some major redesigns to the map and as you said the bars must not shut in cooperative mode but have to shut in SP mode.

There could be a solution around this problem. Voodoo Dolls only work on SP mode and not in Coop mode. So in SP mode the Voodoo dolls close the bars, but in Coop mode the bars remain open.

Even though I consider myself finished from map designing. I now feel very guilty about MAP06... and I'm considering remaking an all new level from scratch with a layout like for example MAP07 of endgame.wad. But sticking with a similar metal theme. MAP06 is very atmospheric indeed but I now have started to notice its layout is worse for wear. The old MAP06 could possibly get moved into the MAP36 slot and be yet another secret level accessed from MAP05 in Zdoom only.

[Snakes]

Ah, finally got through this. Epic, epic finish. Map28 & 29 were fantastically well done (though the center room of 28 lagged a bit for me. Still probably my favorite of the bunch.) I gotta say, after the first 15 maps or so I was thinking, "Pretty damn good, but kinda drags." The second half was all-awesome, though. Especially after Map25.

Which, Map25 had an amazing layout, but drove me nuts. It felt like a jump in difficulty that I didn't expect. There was another map that had Chasm-like ledges with lost souls that made me want to punch the screen.

Those are my two "big" complaints.

On a side note, Map31 and Map32 were damn fun! Awesome stuff, guys.

[Gez]

pcorf said:

But WOS really isn't designed for cooperative mode. Kristian tested it in Coop. But if you want me to make MAP29 more coop compatible I would have to do some major redesigns to the map and as you said the bars must not shut in cooperative mode but have to shut in SP mode.

How about a one-way teleporter that opens up nearby when the bars are shut down?

[The Flange Peddler]

pcorf said:

But WOS really isn't designed for cooperative mode. Kristian tested it in Coop. But if you want me to make MAP29 more coop compatible I would have to do some major redesigns to the map and as you said the bars must not shut in cooperative mode but have to shut in SP mode.

I don't see why you have to do any redesign work at all, except for changing a few W1 lines. At the moment you have the 6 subsections for each key, and at the very start of each subsection the player walks over a W1 line that closes off the teleporter from the main room. Just put that W1 line some where else, after the switch/walkover lines that the player has to activate to lower each key.

Anyway, it's a nice mapset, not without it's problems that have been gone over before. The better maps are certainly towards the end.

Edit: And do voodoo really not work in co-op? I always assumed they did.

[Joshy]

The Flange Peddler said:

Edit: And do voodoo really not work in co-op? I always assumed they did.

Yeah, I'd like to know this too. I am making my 'Speed of Doom' megawad to be co-operative friendly, but it heavily incorporates voodoo dolls.

[pcorf]

I thought I had quit from map designing but WOS is getting at least one new level because I'm putting the pen to paper for an all new MAP06. I rarely design my maps on paper but I'm going to do this one on paper so the map has a more overlapping layout, less copy and paste. The level will have a new name but will retain the same music.

I'm not sure if I will replace MAP09 with another new level though. But anyway its sorta like the update to av.wad in ways.

Changes will be made to MAP29 as well. This will involve moving all linedefs that close the bars in the room with the keys to farther distances like near the key switches in each respective area just before teleporting back to get a key.

Don't expect the update for a few months. I have a busy life with work and other things right now.

[Vermil]

It's interesting to note that both the voodoo doll related effects on TNT Map30 and Plutonia Map28 (to give all players a BFG) also have additional player 2-4 starts.

Though the voodoo doll effect on Plutonia Map07 (to give player1 a DB shotgun), only has an additional player 1 doll.

It could be interesting if someone could run an MP game using Vanilla Doom to test wheter Voodoo dolls actually do appear in MP and if they are killed/telefragged, wheter they respawn when the actual player does.

I mention testing wheter they respawn thinking of TNT Map30; the voodoo dolls sit on a damaging floor, which may be there to cover that the voodoo dolls don't respawn (i.e to kill MP players that step on the wrong platform if the dolls are already dead).

[Do0minat0r]

pcorf said:

I thought I had quit from map designing but WOS is getting at least one new level because I'm putting the pen to paper for an all new MAP06. I rarely design my maps on paper but I'm going to do this one on paper so the map has a more overlapping layout, less copy and paste. The level will have a new name but will retain the same music.

I'm not sure if I will replace MAP09 with another new level though. But anyway its sorta like the update to av.wad in ways.

Changes will be made to MAP29 as well. This will involve moving all linedefs that close the bars in the room with the keys to farther distances like near the key switches in each respective area just before teleporting back to get a key.

Don't expect the update for a few months. I have a busy life with work and other things right now.

That's good to hear! I've enjoyed the wad so far but I'll be sure to redownload it when released to play the new or reviesed map(s). Anyway, good work even as is, but I'm sure the updates, even if only affecting a few maps, will only make it better. :)

[Do0minat0r]

Okay, played my round for the day and on to Map19. Map35 was obviously more just a gimmick map and therefore I don't have much to say about it.

Map34 I enjoyed, oddly enough. I know the design and style was wildly inconsistent and some rooms were just insanely weird, but it actually felt like a decent trip into the past; a long map too. Kind of a map with some deliberatlely poor design and huge style mismatch, that manages to be a decent bonus map anyways. Of course the return to 1994-ness has me not quite ready to dive back into the main episode yet when I finished.

After taking a small break to warm back up to modern map styles, Map16-18 were all quite good, despite some copy-paste in the later two (especially 18). But I can agree with those who have said that the style of gameplay/architecture gets more interesting/exciting around here. And I also thought the mancubus shooting through the eyed doors in Map16 were really neat. :)

Overall, a quite decent project all along only seems to be improving as I progress further. Hope the trend continues. :)

[myk]

Do0minat0r said:
And I also thought the mancubus shooting through the eyed doors in Map16 were really neat. :)

Perhaps the idea came from Scythe 2 Map27, although there it's an Afrit.

[pcorf]

myk said:

Perhaps the idea came from Scythe 2 Map27, although there it's an Afrit.

The idea came from the first level in Hexen.

[Colusio]

I played some 16 maps randomly and finished half of them (in the first run) I found sofar that some maps had way too much health (8,16) but not all of them. I'm not yet finished but I like it very much and thank both of you for making this.

[pcorf]

Coldfusio said:

I played some 16 maps randomly and finished half of them (in the first run) I found so far that some maps had way too much health (8,16) but not all of them. I'm not yet finished but I like it very much and thank both of you for making this.

Yeah thanks to everyone for enjoying and not enjoying WOS. And don't expect Hell Revealed styled maps in WOS.

[Mr. Freeze]

The only problem I has is that MAP30 becomes piss-easy once you get the invincibility. Just stand off to the side and fire rockets into the Icon's head.

Other than that, this is one of my favorite wads this year easily. Congrats.

[Dutch Doomer]

I love this megawad so far, I'm up to map07. I like both Paul and Kristians maps alot. Its sad you are retiring Paul, I hope you reconsider to start mapping again one day.

I love the music as well, very fitting for the maps. And imo map01 was an very good map to start of this megawad with. It felt '94-ish which I liked.

[pcorf]

Mr. Freeze said:

The only problem I has is that MAP30 becomes piss-easy once you get the invincibility. Just stand off to the side and fire rockets into the Icon's head.

Other than that, this is one of my favorite wads this year easily. Congrats.

Piss easy..... well yes and no.

But you have to keep your footing on that top step because you have Hell's firepower constantly attacking you from behind. And if an Archvile is spawned you're tossed over the ledge.

[pcorf]

dutch devil said:

I love this megawad so far, I'm up to map07. I like both Paul and Kristians maps alot. Its sad you are retiring Paul, I hope you reconsider to start mapping again one day.

I love the music as well, very fitting for the maps. And imo map01 was an very good map to start of this megawad with. It felt '94-ish which I liked.

I'm certainly going to be way less active with mapping but may spit a map out here and there from time to time.

Planning to make a new less symmetrical MAP06 and fix some co-op bugs in MAP29. Old Map06 becomes either Map33 or Map36 (if so I would swap 33 to 36 and bring 06 into 33).

[Mr. Freeze]

pcorf said:

Piss easy..... well yes and no.

But you have to keep your footing on that top step because you have Hell's firepower constantly attacking you from behind. And if an Archvile is spawned you're tossed over the ledge.

The thing is, I didn't have to even get to the top step. The wonders of mouselook allowed me to stand to the right on the main platform and fire away. Coupled with the invincibility, Map 30 took me two minutes.

If you want a example of what I consider a good Icon fight, look at HR2. Ridiculous monster count aside, the final boss fight is hard due to the fact that you must lower the platform surrounding the core and fire your rockets in from the top stairs.

Linearity is not a bad thing.

[Kristian Nebula]

The megawad has been made with old-school dooming in mind, although with lotsa detail etc. No fancy stuff like scripting or 3d floors and so on that would've made it more interesting to use mouselook. It's everyone's own choice if they prefer using it, jumping, crouching etc. but we don't really use them. We've just pushed our own limits when making the maps detailed and look and play as good as we can. I've never really liked the idea of free look in singleplay or coop gaming. Deathmatch is of course a different issue. Funny how some new "bugs" or "cheats" are found so when people play with different ways. :)

Thanks for the feedback for everybody from my part, too!

[40oz]

The Flange Peddler said:

I don't see why you have to do any redesign work at all, except for changing a few W1 lines. At the moment you have the 6 subsections for each key, and at the very start of each subsection the player walks over a W1 line that closes off the teleporter from the main room. Just put that W1 line some where else, after the switch/walkover lines that the player has to activate to lower each key.

I was about to suggest this, but the door specifically reads that you need all 6 keys to open it. In other words, all the players may collectively have all the keys but they won't each be carrying all 6.

I suppose if instead of the door needing 6 keys, if could be a series of doors that need one each.

EDIT: wait i forgot all the keys are in the main room and not at the end of each gauntlet. Nevermind, I suppose that idea would work after all. Just make the line that lowers the bar extremely close to the teleport that brings you back. That way the bars lower after that specific gauntlet is completed, not after it is started.

[pcorf]

40oz said:

Just make the line that lowers the bar extremely close to the teleport that brings you back. That way the bars lower after that specific gauntlet is completed, not after it is started.

Spot on. This is what I plan to do.

A minor update was recently released that fixed a few minor bugs. But don't expect the main update for quiet some time. I have a busy life these days.

[pcorf]

Started work on the new MAP06. Its going to be a dark, underground base that will make you guys even happier. It is very symmetrical but with a very overlapping progression. The goal is to design a map where no area is repeated at all but still retains the symmetrical feel to it.

Its a very complex layout that I'm designing on paper. After that I will make changes to MAP29 which will improve Co-op play.

The original MAP06 will probably become a secret level that can be accessed from MAP05. It will probably become MAP33 while the current MAP33 will be moved to MAP36.

I'm not sure if I have time to make a new MAP09 but I think its ok as it is. Just call it the crappy map in WOS. But someone like an Erik Alm, Dutch Devil or Gusta (who I think are the 3 best mappers in the modern era) can feel free to make a new MAP09 for WOS. I love their maps very much.

[Uncle 80]

WOS is a strong, high-quality mapset as one would expect given the previous work from these mappers. Gameplay, detailing, texturing and layout is generally very good throughout the entire WAD. I especially enjoy seeing the stock textures put to new uses! My sole complaint is that some of the maps are too symmetrical (like the red key part of map06), and some of the traps are very predictable (but I guess that's part of Doom's nature).

A highly recommended download!

[pcorf]

Uncle 80 said:

My sole complaint is that some of the maps are too symmetrical (like the red key part of map06)

Don't worry. There's a new MAP06 on the way, the old MAP06 is going into the trash.

[Dutch Doomer]

Map06 wasn't that bad imo. It would be an waste to trash it. Maybe you could salvage some of that map for the new one.

[pcorf]

dutch devil said:

Map06 wasn't that bad imo. It would be an waste to trash it. Maybe you could salvage some of that map for the new one.

It wont be going into the trash. Instead it will become a secret level (as MAP33). New MAP06 will be somewhat similar to the old one, mostly underground.

[Gusta]

I have to say, that map06 was my favourite map too :-) despite the symetry critised above. I have not been so glad about using too much of symetry in WOS too, but for some reason I didn't mind it in this map.
and btw. thanks for the honour, Paul :-)

[pcorf]

Gusta said:

I have to say, that map06 was my favourite map too :-) despite the symetry critised above. I have not been so glad about using too much of symetry in WOS too, but for some reason I didn't mind it in this map.
and btw. thanks for the honour, Paul :-)

Yes, you have made some very good levels in Plutonia 2. I loved MAP02: Jungle Spirits and MAP18 was nice too. It will get a Cacoward.

Don't worry, the new MAP06 will be a huge improvement. It is set underground but this time its a bigger map. You of course start above ground but then descend below into the depths.

As I said the old MAP06 (now MAP33) can be still accessed from a secret exit in MAP05 which is behind the door where the Revenant and SSG are located just before the exit. The door now opens but you players have to figure that out.