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Hellbent

Original Doom Community Project Idea

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In light of Antroid's rant on doom projects straying too far from original Doom style maps, I felt inspired to give this project another try! Rereading my original post I still think it's a good idea.

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Well, I may be honored to offer "Id styled" custom textures as a redemption for previous affairs...

In my opinion as E1 is the most known, mimic it is the best tribute to original Id mapping style.

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If this gets off the ground, I will do a map for it. I think this idea has a lot of potential.

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I had an idea for a very similar community project. However, my idea was to impose limits based on the map slot chosen for each map. That is, if you were going to make a map replacing E1M1, it could only contain the same textures, monsters, items etc that were found in the original map. So no cacodemons or hellish textures. The idea could have even gone so far as to limit what types of keys and door types the author could use.

It didn't seem very viable to me, but it was an interesting idea none the less.

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Kyka said:

If this gets off the ground, I will do a map for it. I think this idea has a lot of potential.

Kewl, not really sure how to start. I think there are other people interested as well. Actually, I remember now that there were some preliminary submissions of E1 style maps.

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I'm interested, I wouldn't mind having a go at original doom mapping, sometimes we gotta have a break from Doom2. :p

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Snarboo said:

I had an idea for a very similar community project. However, my idea was to impose limits based on the map slot chosen for each map. That is, if you were going to make a map replacing E1M1, it could only contain the same textures, monsters, items etc that were found in the original map. So no cacodemons or hellish textures. The idea could have even gone so far as to limit what types of keys and door types the author could use.

It didn't seem very viable to me, but it was an interesting idea none the less.


I guess for them to be implemented, they would probably have to be slightly more generalised. So rather than say "exactly" the same textures/keys/monsters, the rule could be "recognizably" close in terms of theme/design/monster layout etc.

But I think some of those ideas could be incorporated, in terms of;

- plasma/BFG weapons.
- cacodemons.
- barons except for the two on e1m8.
- appearance of weapons, backpack etc.

etc etc.

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Who's head of project ?

Maybe use Xmas holidays to list potential troops appearing in this thread and able to work on it in January ?

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iceman57 said:

Who's head of project ?

Maybe use Xmas holidays to list potential troops appearing in this thread and able to work on it in January ?

I have 5 weeks off after Friday and I haven't booked my time with anything at all. So if the Doom bug stays with me I could do some work on it. I already started one in fact. I kinda like it so far. Very E3.

Not sure who's head. I guess I should probably step up, but I'm not sure where to begin. :) These things need to be organized. Why doesn't everyone start by posting what episode they'd like to make a map after and maybe some thoughts on why you are attracted to this project--like a little bit about what level inspires you or anything you might want to say. You don't have to say anything, but it might be helpful to get an idea of what we each have in mind--what we want to see come of this project--to see if people are more or less on the same page.

I originally was going to do an e2 style map inspired by areas such as the latter part of E2M2; the 'main part' of the map where you go up the steps that you raise after hitting a switch and much of E2M4. In addition, the beginning of E2M7: the lighting and texture combinations for much of the beginning of that map--or the whole map minus the "containment area" of the map and the silver area. Much of E2M1 as it was so new and different after playing episode 1 so many times and finally getting to see the rest of the series. Parts of E3M3 such as the slime bridge where the cacodemon is, near the beginning of the level (much of that level seems indistinguishable from an E2 map to me)

That bout sums it up! Oh.. except that I didn't end up doing an e2 style map. I just started working on an E3 one. E2 is too daunting--E3 seems easier. So far the map looks like it'd fit in somewhere either after e3m4 or after e3m5 (so far it has elements of both e3m4 and e3m5.)

If there is any level in Doom that could use improvement or replacement it would be e2m9. Since this project was proposed as additional levels rather than replacing levels--I might as a caveat try to entice someone to make a better Fortress of Mystery but keeping true to the rules described at the beginning of this thread.

Btw, I don't think there should be a restriction on the number of maps you can make, but it would be nice to see actual maps get finished!

BTW, does anyone know where STPHRZ went to? First name's Stephen--don't remember his last name. Robinson maybe?

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I think it would be better to set a definite goal. It seems like there is enough interest here that we could get 6 or 7 mappers, and all do a map, that is almost an episode replacement.

So possibly, pick one of the three episodes, and all aim to map for that one episode.

E3 maybe?

If so, I bags Mt Erebus. Always loved that level.

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I'm happy with that Lurker dude. We'll see if other people are. I know that Bucket started an E2 style map six months ago so he may not want to switch episodes. My level is coming along nicely. Although I did something rather creative which was definitely going against the "id rules"--but it's such a small detail, no one will probably even notice.

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*throw hands in air*

I don't even know if I have the time to contribute to this. I'm trying to start a project of my own.

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Bucket said:

*throw hands in air*

I don't even know if I have the time to contribute to this. I'm trying to start a project of my own.


:(

We could have a "hybrid" episode. Everyone make a map of their choice and then we arrange them in an order from E1-E3. We can call it "Mini Doom" or "Doom Lite" Don't have the wherewithall to play 3 episodes of Doom? Want the complete Doom experience in a compact package? Try Doom Lite! With three distinct episodes compressed into one nine level game!

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Hellbent said:

:(

We could have a "hybrid" episode. Everyone make a map of their choice and then we arrange them in an order from E1-E3. We can call it "Mini Doom" or "Doom Lite" Don't have the wherewithall to play 3 episodes of Doom? Want the complete Doom experience in a compact package? Try Doom Lite! With three distinct episodes compressed into one nine level game!


I actually really like that idea. That's a good way to revisit Doom's 3 major themes without letting any of them get tedious.

I probably won't contribute though - I already have a few things I need to finish.

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Well, I thought I'd share what I got so far--either for inspiration for others or for practice in critical assessment skills--or both :D.

download e3 classicness

some screenies The screenies aren't that impressive--the whole is better than the sum of its parts.

This is a work in progress. I just started making sectors--but it's not the beginning of the map-- but rather probably 2/3 into the map. All items and monsters are preliminary--this is not a playable demo. I just felt like sharing since it's been so long since I've started an SP map and actually made some progress on it and it not totally sucking (at least relatively speaking for my skills.)

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Bucket said:

*throw hands in air*

I don't even know if I have the time to contribute to this. I'm trying to start a project of my own.


What project? Did you read my post quoted below? I hope you are still considering working on the map you started!

Hellbent said:

:(

We could have a "hybrid" episode. Everyone make a map of their choice and then we arrange them in an order from E1-E3. We can call it "Mini Doom" or "Doom Lite" Don't have the wherewithall to play 3 episodes of Doom? Want the complete Doom experience in a compact package? Try Doom Lite! With three distinct episodes compressed into one nine level game!

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Those screens are very nice! The first two definitely have some Pandemonium vibe to them. Some of the others feel more like episode two though.

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Well... I probably don't have the map I was working on anymore, but it shouldn't be too hard to recreate. I guess I can swing it. I'll take an E2 slot.

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Bucket said:

Well... I probably don't have the map I was working on anymore, but it shouldn't be too hard to recreate. I guess I can swing it. I'll take an E2 slot.

I believe the filename was buckete1.wad. Do a search on your HD!

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I've updated the original post to this thread. So if you want some clarification on the details of this project, go read it! Six months later and I still feel the same way about this project.

A couple nitpicks I'd like to raise about my personal vision of this project:

1. Not to be negative about Espi's great B2B.wad (I have been playing it recently so it sticks out in my mind) but one of the big reasons (among many) that I want to do this project is that many Doom styled custom maps tend to make levels with lots of uniform textures (nothing wrong with that per se). One big turn off of Thy Flesh Consumed (Episode 4) was that every level was uniform texture design!! While this has a certain aesthetic 'charm' (sorry, bad word choice), it's much less interesting to me than the mixing of textures in the first three episodes, most notably E2. For example, in the first three episodes, you don't get large areas with marble/gstone walls, marble floors and marble ceiling. You also don't get large sections of a map with wood ceiling, wood floor and wood walls. And you don't get large areas of a map (or an entire map!) with light brown walls, light brown ceiling, light brown floors! (Isn't E4M9 basically like this?) The reason I use Espi's B2B is that you get very similar 'compartmentalization' of texture themes (lots of light grays and dark brows recurring over and over) that you see in E4, rather than the creative hodgepodge use of textures seen prominently on Episode 2 of Doom but also in E1 and E3 (most notably on E3M3). So, in being true to the original 3 episodes of Doom, I would really like to see people avoid this! (Sorry Espi, I think your level archtectures are really wonderful [you should be an architect]) but very few, if any mappers, famed or otherwise, have made Doom styled maps with an effective hodgepodge of texture use (I really cannot think of any examples and if anyone knows of any, let me know!) Maybe Paul Corfiatus? Didn't he make some good Doom styled maps? Then again, I don't think I've played Suspended in Dusk--I will have to after finals are done. Anyway, this creative and atmospheric producing use of textures by id is a major impetus for me launching this community project proposal.

2. Also, I don't want to see maps with too logical layouts like in B2B (the archticture and map layouts seemed more logical and sensical than in the original Doom's --I've written various Tomes on the subject elsewhere on the forums, so I won't repeat myself on that front here--suffice to say id's often nonsensical architecture is part of its appeal for me.

3. Exceptions; Boss Levels: If there be any exceptions made to this project's rules while making maps for this project; for me it would be for Boss levels and secret levels. Don't misconstrue! Boss levels should still be SHORT (E1's has a few demons before the final confrontation, but E2 and E3 are 'small'/simple levels. What I would like to see is more creativity in the level. Essentially more coolness. Babel was cool, but Dis was a bit too "that's it? That's how the greatest game of all time comes to a conclusion? That's the mighty climax?" I envision maybe a room or two before the final showdown, but E3 needs to be creative and hellish looking! I don't know why marble is the theme for the heart of hell. (Interesetingly Icon of Sin also had prominent green for the heart of hell) I realize having this exception is not really fair (other people will then want other kinds of exceptions which might conflict with my vision) so I'd rather have this exception not honored than honor other peoples' exceptions I don't like! (We'll cross that bridge if we come to it.)

4. More Exceptions: Secret levels. Well, I guess for now there will only be 1 secret level. The secret levels in Doom seemed to me like they received less thought and time than the rest of the game. Yes, they each had a couple unique elements (E1's very ordered layout and monster teleport, E2's simplicity and big monster infighting, E3's starting out as E1) but I think we can do better here! We could either make them to fit their corresponding map name, but better (ie, a better fortress of mystery like the one in B2B.wad or a better Warrens or a more interesting Military Base layout. Well, I guess these aren't really exceptions, but more like creative considerations.

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Antroid said:

Those screens are very nice! The first two definitely have some Pandemonium vibe to them. Some of the others feel more like episode two though.

Which like E2? My use of Metal1 might be E2ish--but Pandemonium does have metal1 textures in it. While Rockred2 is used a lot in E2 it is also an E3 texture and seems perfectly suited for "Inferno"

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Well, screens 3,4,5 feel a bit like some part from deimos lab (may go for limbo though i guess), and the last three look somewhat like containment area..? Though i suppose i don't remember ep3 that well, pandemonium or house of pain or whatever may have had similiar places and i just forgot them. Especially considering most of my memories are based on the SNES port, where some of the more complicated maps were absent.

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Antroid said:

Well, screens 3,4,5 feel a bit like some part from deimos lab (may go for limbo though i guess), and the last three look somewhat like containment area..? Though i suppose i don't remember ep3 that well, pandemonium or house of pain or whatever may have had similiar places and i just forgot them. Especially considering most of my memories are based on the SNES port, where some of the more complicated maps were absent.

For me the map looks most like Limbo with some Pandemonium and House of Pain and a hint of Diemos Lab (but when you play the map, I don't think you'll really get that impression) I'm thinking of going through all the textures used in each episode and then posting them. Maybe even which levels introduce new textures and stuff like that, but that might prove a daunting task. Prolly better to just play through the episode you're thinking of mapping for on easy and making note of texture use progression through the episode. Anyway, hoping people are still interested in this project! Let me know.

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Since I'll be getting some free time after this week, I'd like to contribute a map for all three episodes. What mapslots are avaliable? Also, would it possible to create my own midis in the style of the original score?

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