ZPortal - Finally released!

[Kira]

Tango said:

Yes, but it's also agreed that this mapset is already fun. If it's already fun then why not add detail?

Tango have a point here imo. Though the detailling shouldn't break the gameplay (e.g. problems mentionned with the behaviour of the portal gun).

[Creaphis]

I think that the reverse question is equally valid. If it's already fun, then why add detail?

[Tango]

Creaphis said:

I think that the reverse question is equally valid. If it's already fun, then why add detail?

Because it looks pretty bland? I don't see why you wouldn't want to make it fun and good-looking. I don't see why "gameplay > detail" should mean that there's no reason to detail something if it already has good gameplay.

[Creaphis]

I agree that wads with good gameplay should look good too, but "needs detail" is simply not the right mindset to have here. This wad doesn't have the Doomguy killing imps in cramped rooms. He's travelling vast distances and through huge structures with bizarre, impossible architecture. Adding small detail would be pointless here, as no structure here could possibly be made to look "realistic", and I feel that the impossibility of the structures enhances the wad's effect. Using traditional detailing methods in these maps would just dilute that effect.

No, for a wad like this to look good, what it needs instead of "detail" is vast, interesting architecture, which it already has. I was especially impressed by the biggest space in the canyon level, and the first external sight of the castle. I'll admit that many interior spaces have bland shapes, but in most cases, if the visual field or the level geometry were more complex, it would interfere with finding the solution to the puzzles. The simple shapes and simple appearances of these areas help the gameplay of this wad, and thus the overall experience.

I'm sorry that you can't appreciate this for what it is. No wad is for everybody.

[Death-Destiny]

Tango said:

Because it looks pretty bland? I don't see why you wouldn't want to make it fun and good-looking. I don't see why "gameplay > detail" should mean that there's no reason to detail something if it already has good gameplay.

Isn't beauty in the eyes of the beholder? I'm with Creaphis that a WAD like this looks better with the simpler puzzle-ish looking architecture. What details would you have added anyway? Also, the gameplay was the purpose of the WAD anyway. I'm pretty certain that Cutman wanted us to appreciate his Portal Gun more than the environment. Besides, whenever I play chess, I'm like "This is a fun game I'm playing" and not "These pieces and this chess board are too bland and therefore I cannot have fun playing" =( ...Although I guess that always wanting detail would be your loss now wouldn't it? =P

[esselfortium]

While the portal gun is definitely cool and an accomplishment of scripting work, I've got to agree with Tango, K!r4, CodeImp, and Vegeta. The maps are visually pretty bland. The OP screenshot is of an empty room textured with FLAT20, GRAY1, and CRATOP1 (or is that FLAT19? I can't tell). While it is of course important for the red and blue portals to visually stand out from their surroundings, there's no need for the maps to be entirely plain and lacking in any sort of visual contrast or interest...or texture alignment. The maps in Portal itself were intentionally somewhat simplistic in visual design, but they were still good-looking.

In any case, claiming that someone is incapable of enjoying it just because they suggested making it look better seems like a bizarre knee-jerk reaction. "Always wanting detail would be your loss now wouldn't it?" Er....heh?

[leileilol]

Portal was visually bland itself too you know but people didn't give a shit because OMG PORTAL TECH

[esselfortium]

Portal actually looked good, though.

[Cutman]

Portal doesn't use (G)ZDoom.

I think we've already established that the maps are pretty damn bland. How about talking about a different aspect of the damn wad now?

[Death-Destiny]

Cutman said:

Portal doesn't use (G)ZDoom.

I think we've already established that the maps are pretty damn bland. How about talking about a different aspect of the damn wad now?

Please. Let's do. Cutman did not share his WAD with us so we can chastise him about the aesthetics. This discussion is irrelavent anyway since it's Cutman's map and he can make it as detailed or simple as he wants with or without our approval. =/

[esselfortium]

Jeez, dude. No one's trying to chastise Cutman here. It's a fun wad, no one's denying that. You're the one trying to make us the bad guys here for making a suggestion :[

[Death-Destiny]

esselfortium said:

Jeez, dude. No one's trying to chastise Cutman here. It's a fun wad, no one's denying that. You're the one trying to make us the bad guys here for making a suggestion :[

Come now, don't be like that Essel. =(
I'm not trying to lay blame on anyone. I'm just saying that I think you people are making suggestions a bit too assertively and that since Cutman said long ago that he didn't want to do anything more with the detailing that we should end this topic of discussion and talk about something else.

[Kira]

This discussion is still interesting for the guys who wants to make others GZDoom Portal levels, because I'm sure it would initiate a lot of clones from GZDoom mappers now.

[Cutman]

I dunno, I was hoping that the first demo I released would have that effect :P

Btw version 2 is dones, fixes a few of the complaints I had (not all of them though). It'll be on idgames shortly.

[Oldfukka]

The portal gun is a very cool weapons mod indeed. My compliments to Cutman. However, I found it very frustrating to use effectively at first, especially when it was required to solve a puzzle. I almost gave up in the first map. Then I found a full game demo on one of the zdoom.org forums and saw how a pro uses the portal. I was using it all wrong. The demo advanced my learning curve dramatically. It was posted by a guy named Stinky. Here's the link:
http://www.mtsu.edu/~srh2n/Zportalwalkthrough.lmp

A couple of maybe stupid questions:

Is there a way to slow down or "rewind" demos? That Stinky guy makes some moves that are so quick I have to play the demo over and over to see what he actually did.

Like others, I keep accidentally running into previously opened portals. I know an "inventory key" is made available to close all portals. How do I operate it?