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Dutch Doomer

Playtest playtest playtest

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Are you bored? good playtest this map if you like.Its made for boom altough it doesn't use any of its features, dunno why I guess I forgot to use some of it or I really didn't felt the need to use some.

Well anyway I don't care the map is still well worth your time, gameplay is annoyingly hard at the start but it gets easier after an while.I still need to do something about that music and sky.

An bunch of screens:




Download:
http://www.speedyshare.com/969636579.html

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dutch devil said:

gameplay is annoyingly hard at the start

dutch devil said:

is annoyingly hard at the start

dutch devil said:

is annoyingly hard


Tried it 5 times, kept getting raped by the chaingunners. I'm obviously not the best Doom player out there, and I don't even know if you've implemented difficulty levels (I attempted it at Hurt Me Plenty), but that's not fun. At least not at the beginning, anyways. From what I could see, it looked good, though. I liked how the door that was partially open slammed shut when you I neared it.

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Well, I beat it on hurt me plenty. Barely. It is very hard, and you got a bit happy with the chaingunners, but it was alright. Good amount of detail, without it raping my eyes. Maybe replace a chaingunner or two with a hell knight, to give us a break from hitscan enemies? And just 1 more 4 pack of shotgun shells in the beginning would be nice.

And he does have a skill variance. On ultra violence, theres shit everywhere, and I cant walk out the first doorway without getting raped.

8/10 for me. Bonus for insane difficulty without using too many big enemies.

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I could beat it and I'm not an good player, its hard but is doable it gets easier after an few tries.Yes the map has difficulty settings, try it on skill 1/2 first to get familiar with the traps, then attempt an tougher skill level.

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Sorry to bring up a question thats kind of unrelated, but in a 1024x1024 map, does that mean the playable area, or the entire map? It looked like the map was a bit bigger than 1024x1024.

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The playing area stays within the 1024x1024 limit, take an peek in an map editor draw an 1024x1024 square and hold it over the map.Everything outside the square is scenery and for monsters.

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I'd say that difficulty on UV is about right. After trying two or three times on the opening fight I survived the rest without a problem. It just takes some careful dodging and quick attacks. I played it with freelook, but I'm sure this won't have significantly affected the difficulty.

Very good stuff.

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Agreed with Butts. It was close, admittedly, but it only took me one try, so the traps are survivable. One just needs to realize where their foes are most dangerous so they can position themselves and respond accordingly. Definitely managable on subsequent attempts. It's a pretty nice exercise actually.

Dutch, you made it really close with the resources. While I am the type to waste resources without a second thought, I completed the map with 0 bullets, 0 shells, and 6% health... O.o

On a side note, Dutch, you might want to change your file's name.
The file name conflicted with the map "Crossing Acheron" (ACHERON.WAD) from 1994, so I had to rename your map to ACHERON2.WAD so as not to delete the other... although I don't know how many people are pack rats for 14 year old maps... =P

Anyway, nice map Dutch, very tense. Great job, as usual. *thumbs up*

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Fun short level, took a few tries, looks good. Maybe that medkit at the dropoff is too easy to nab by accident if you don't want it at that time. When you get the red key, seems the best place to go is the shelter by the stairs, and the fastest way to get there is squeezing out the side (avoiding the warp) which is kinda awkward.

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Oh, I just recorded another run of your map, Dutch. I get joy from watching demos of my work, so you probably do as well. =) It makes mapping more fun if it wasn't enough already.

Here it is, recorded with PrBoom V2.4.7

On a completely unrelated note, I probably ought to grab the PrBoom V2.4.8.2, though I'm not sure if the demo-recording is different or not. But I think that's only Zdoom, isn't it... =/

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Death-Destiny said:

On a completely unrelated note, I probably ought to grab the PrBoom V2.4.8.2, though I'm not sure if the demo-recording is different or not.

Yes, that would be a good idea. The only changes prboom-plus makes in terms of demo compatibility are to remove bugs*, and to add extra options for playing back problematic demos. It also removes some annoyances from the recorder's viewpoint. To emulate Boom, it is still -complevel 9. See this post.

* For example, prboom-plus emulates Boom's friction and bobbing code, the lack of which is a possible source of some desyncs if using "regular" prboom. But see the changelog if you want detailed info.

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annoyingly hard, but i can see how this can be fun for elite players. most other players might be turned off though. this is definitely worth a cacoward :3

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I beat it (with flying colors after a few tries), but it's still too hard. There's too many hitscan monsters, and it's too hard to dodge them, especially in the beginning. The opening fight is going to yield random results (either you're going to get shot up, or lucky and not), and whenever you have outcomes like that that aren't based on skill, it's likely not going to be fun.

I really just think the gameplay is just annoying on this map right now in its current state.

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I think its based on skill, and memorizing the somewhat hidden chaingunner locations. Another way to start is just run past everyone, get the armor, and hang out down there in relative safety firing the pistol until you get a shotgun. After that, first priority are the immediate enemies on your ground level, then all chaingunners/hitscanners probably. I'm not a doomgod but could beat it almost every try, after the initial memorization of everything, but I'm usually familiar enough with the game to find exploits (ex. just hang off the ledge a tad, then backup again (repeatedly) makes everyone down there infight without much risk.

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Short, tight, nice level. I dont know if there is diff settings. I did it on UV, died once at the start, second try got nearly to the end, then died again at the start. Teach me for not saving. So three tries, and I finished it. If you really want4ed to add to the short, intense feel, you could remove a little of the ammo. I was able to make a lot of the monsters infight relatively easily.

The design was great. I loved the scenery and the layout. The broken tiles on the floor, the marble and stone layout, the windows, the towers. Nice nice nice. The one fault i could see texture-wise on some stairs. Screenie here:

http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stairspngwo2.png

See the grey line at the bottom of each stair. Perhaps I am being too picky here, but i thought I would bring it to your attention anyway.

But in truth, the one thing that I didnt like was the shortness of the level. I was really getting into the feel, the combat, the scenery, all these things really drew me in, then BAM, it was over.

Overall, loved the level. Unique, cool design, brutal combat, good level of health. I would have slightly less ammo, but that is a preference, not a fault.

Well done. really enjoyed it, and will be putting it in my "Greatwads" folder.

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dutch devil said:
Its made for boom altough it doesn't use any of its features,

Well, is it positively broken under v1.9 functionality?

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@Myk it should run fine, maybe I change format to doom2 screw boom features anyway.

@Kyka thanks I know about these grey lines, maybe I'll fix that.Congestion 1024 type maps are always short, I could make the maps last longer by making smaller areas.I like it better when an 1024 map doesn't feel cramped.

@Carnevil its not too hard cause you have beaten it, the hardest part it the fight at the beginning once you survive that you should be fine.

@DD Thanks for that demo I'll watch it later, dunno how to get it to work though.I suppose drag and drop should do the trick, I'll change the name of the map as well.

To everyone thanks for the feedback I'm gonna try to put all the feedback to good use.Good thing I didn't uploaded the even harder version with an Archvile at the start and even more monsters :p

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I haven't tried it, but by the looks of monsters in so many different locations and height levels, it looks like a pain in the ass to play.

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Don't give in. I really don't think you should make it easier.

The first time I survived the opening fight on HMP I beat the level (took 2 or 3 attempts) and after that, the first time I survived the opening fight on UV I won again (took 2 or 3 attempts again). If anything should be made easier, it could be that beginning fight, but if the rest of the level is being judged as too hard I would attribute that to inappropriate strategy. I played carefully, looking into every gap to check for a hiding monster, finding good safe spots, and sniping some monsters from a distance. Knowing the level's layout and traps ahead of time is not necessary to survive it if the player uses caution.

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Hey Dutch, I think you should post the harder version with the Arch-vile in it and then everyone will be thanking you for giving us this version instead. ;-)

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The word for this map is: "tight." 1024 playable area, little room for mistakes, no horn-of-plenty's worth of health, no spare lead to toss away, few safe zones. Tight.

Survival requires careful strategy, mental tracking of opponents on all sides, use of cover and accuracy during quick attacks.

It's worth noting: I used a port with mouselook and I cannot imagine venturing this level without it. Monsters attacked from many height levels. Without mouselook these would have been difficult or impossible to see. Ammo is too spare for guess-and-check autoaim adventures to be any fun. With mouselook's help, I had a blast.

The beginning of the map is more challenging than the remainder. I don't mind getting perforated at the start a few times; it's no ground lost to begin the map over again. This first battle is reasonably hard, so pushing through is rewarding.

The 1024x1024 restriction resulted here in a lot of ledges outside the player's explorable areas. I enjoyed having to dodge fire from outside the 1024 zone during early battles; later I gratified myself by finally clearing these ledges of snipers to create hard-earned safe zones for myself. "There, now I've got time to go deal with that pesky lil' fucker..."

This map's monsters add up to more than their usual individual power. Due to its thoughtful monster placement and resource rationing, this map served as a nice workout that should help intermediate players tighten their skills.

The map was nice to look at, with a very serviceable layout. I would suggest a little more lighting variance worked into the courtyard's architecture to show it off, or a gloomy sky to make the bright areas stand out by contrast.

To recap: tight. Short, intense, and efficient. This is a hardworking little map, and I had a great time.

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Carnevil said:

I beat it (with flying colors after a few tries), but it's still too hard.


I can't imagine judging a map as "too hard" after having completed it with only a slight struggle.

Carnevil said:

There's too many hitscan monsters, and it's too hard to dodge them, especially in the beginning.


I concede that they're difficult to dodge at the opening scene. Smoothly running in one direction while firing in several others is hard, and that's what's called for if you want the best chance of survival.

Carnevil said:

The opening fight is going to yield random results (either you're going to get shot up, or lucky and not), and whenever you have outcomes like that that aren't based on skill, it's likely not going to be fun.

I really just think the gameplay is just annoying on this map right now in its current state.


Calling the gameplay "just annoying" isn't constructive, but I agree with Carnevil that luck-based situations aren't fun. The first battle is hard enough that I believe most players will be rolling the dice a little, but that's the nature of hitscan monsters in general.

If the bridge scenario occurred repeatedly through the map, I'd share Carnevil's irritation; the map would be too demanding. My experience, though, was that under pressure I performed better than usual and enjoyed the struggle immensely, and it was fun being taken down a few notches so that the rest of the map wasn't too easy.

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OOH...OOOH... OOOOHHHHH... Did I hear Dutch Devil say there was a harder version...??

Gimme Gimme Gimme.

Just as a side note. I almost always play doom without mouse look up/down and my jumping is limited to areas that I know I can get to without jumping anyway. And this map is still perfectly doable without either of those. The diff isn't excessive.


Would love to see the harder version of this one tho.

P.S. especially liked the depressions in the ground.. the different shades of brown textures used there... great.

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Kyka said:

P.S. especially liked the depressions in the ground.. the different shades of brown textures used there... great.


Yeah, agreed! Very organic-looking; the textures really created the illusion of soft edges.

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Death-Destiny said:

Hey Dutch, I think you should post the harder version with the Arch-vile in it and then everyone will be thanking you for giving us this version instead. ;-)

I just watched your demo great stuff, its still too easy hehe.Are there people interested in an sequel to Congestion 1024, and are willing to contribute.

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Hmm, well after reading a few posts I felt I should give this a go. Hard as hell, but not as hard as some people stated, I played it on UV and beat it after one death (maybe because I have been playing HR and 2) to much lately. I have to say it was a typical dutch devil creation, good but difficult gameplay and incredible detail.

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