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lazygecko

High-res sprites

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Wow...I thought I was the only one who was working on a hi resolution sprite project. I wonder if we could combine our efforts?
My wad can be found at:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/nois3k


The file is under 3 MB, so it's a quick D-L, but I'm still working on it, so please don't flame me TOO bad!

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To me the difference here is insignificant I don't really see any of the pixels in that manner. I see the shape and colors, and my imagination fills in the gap.

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"To me the difference here is insignificant"
-He he...Well, 2x isn't much of a difference, but if you compared the original sprites to my new(ish) ones, you'd see it, believe me.

"I don't really see any of the pixels in that manner. I see the shape and colors, and my imagination fills in the gap."

-I don't follow you...But if it's good, thank you. :)

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I'm sorry to say that. But yes. It still is. I can see you've done a fairly desent job upping the res. But I don't see anything in them that wasn't already there in the originals. It's not a whole new level of detail or realism that I think would be the point of this kind of project.
And the jagged edges of the originals is something I am not even considering when I'm playing Doom. Just to do all that work for the sake of smoothing stuff out to be round and such, is really a monumental waste of time IMO.

But considering how popular these projects are, as they keep popping up every two months. I suppose I am pretty much alone to think that.

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No...You're half right. %89 of the time the player won't be able to tell the difference. Only when your toe-to toe with a monster will it look any better.

But, what the heck. I thought it was a good idea at the time.

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I think it looks good. Yes, there are no new details -- but I don't want new details, or I'd just use the Doom 64 sprites instead. It's the same thing as before, just crisper and cleaner. Like DoomJedi's work on some decoration and powerups for Skulltag (link).

The cacoball and gibs don't look too good, though, and I'm not sure I like the cacodemon's slight color change. Otherwise, it's cool and I hope you'll finish the sprite sets that are not completed yet.

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kristus said:

I'm sorry to say that. But yes. It still is. I can see you've done a fairly desent job upping the res. But I don't see anything in them that wasn't already there in the originals. It's not a whole new level of detail or realism that I think would be the point of this kind of project.
And the jagged edges of the originals is something I am not even considering when I'm playing Doom. Just to do all that work for the sake of smoothing stuff out to be round and such, is really a monumental waste of time IMO.

But considering how popular these projects are, as they keep popping up every two months. I suppose I am pretty much alone to think that.


Although I tend to agree with you mainly because rarely am I close enough to monsters to the point they get severely pixelated, but I don't think any High-res sprites projects were ever finished. And at the rate this guy is moving i encourage his work.

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Thank you. I was beginning to think I was just wasting my time.
I'm glad to see some people are interested in this, even if it's a mixed reaction.
The real key to doing this kind of thing is how much time I put into it. I've been rushing it, and not completing a set of sprites before I move on to the next set, which is why some look so bad.
Although it's usually bat taste to look a gift-horse in the mouth, this "gift" to the community should be better before I offer it up.

I'll put a lot more work into it, and post a link to a finished file before I promote it further.


A cake half-baked is no treat at all.

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Hey 8thmonth, presumably you are the same guy who posted as "August" over at Zdoom. I don't think that you have been back to your thread over there, so I'll repost what I wrote:

"OK, I finally got around to checking these out and... I think the reception has been a bit harsh. some of these aren't too bad. Clearly some are not finished (eg some rotations of some sprites look just like re-sized versions with no filtering applied and then scaled back down so they don't look much, if any, different. However, the ones that have been edited could have looked a lot worse. In fact, I'm sure we've seen far worse attempts in the past. Sure, they will never be as good as scratch artwork designed for that resolution but I think they do give a slight improvement to the look of some of the sprites. Unfortunately, when I say slight, I do mean slight and I'm not sure that the effort is worth it.

However, what really caught my eye were the BIG-Xtras. I think some of those look great. OK, again a few could do with a bit of finishing off but I really like some of them (the zombie replacements particularly, although the Caco is fun too - if not totally in keeping with the Doom style).

So yeah August, I think you should keep plugging away at the Xtras at least. I'm less convinced by the hi-res originals but perhaps you could be going somewhere with them too."


The only thing I would change in that is that your regular sprites are growing on me more and more too. Ever since seeing the hi-res sprites in the Mac version of Wolfenstein (which, unfortunately are only drawn from one angle) I've wanted some decent hi-res sprites for Doom. I think they make a big difference. Unfortunately, I neither have the skill nor the patience to make a good enough job of it. So I really wish anyone working on hi-res sprites well.

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Yes...It's me(August is the 8th month), and I did see your comment.
I'm sorry I didn't respond there. In truth, 2x isn't that much different, and I'm probably doing this for personal reasons, rather than functionality. I will continue on, and I'll look %300 better when it's all finished.
Will it be the greatest DOOM wad ever...?
No. But if it draws some interest, and helps in a small way to keep DOOM alive, and fresh, it'll be well worth the effort.

...And, it's for a friend.

And for all who came before.


Thank you enjay. You make me smile every time I read one of your posts. :)

You don't know me...But, your my friend.

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August/8thmonth:
Do not let a couple of people discourage you from working on this. You are doing a wonderful job, and as being a pixel artist myself, I'm finding these extremely impressive. I'm not sure how well these will be received by the community as a whole, but there will always be people that appreciate your work.

Keep going man. This is the best hi-res conversion job I've ever seen for anything.

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<-- Does his best "Quake 3 Arena announcer" voice

"IMPRESSIVE."

Would love to see a full release.

these actually don't suck!

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whats all this praise for 8thmonths sprites about, I look at them and they're just resampled with extra round edges, looking nothing improved like the results in the original post in this thread?

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Indeed. The ones in the first few posts actually make me think about a hi-res monster pack rather than "nah".

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leileilol said:

whats all this praise for 8thmonths sprites about, I look at them and they're just resampled with extra round edges, looking nothing improved like the results in the original post in this thread?


Where's your high-resolution sprites then?

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Quality work.

Though I can't help but see a bit of futility in projects such as these. Upping the res on Doom's entire sprite library is a monumental task for what would no doubt garnish little fanfare. Not to sound discouraging, but going through the process of updating old tech with old tech for visual aesthetic would be along the same lines of replacing the motor of a 1993 Civic with a motor from a 94 Civic with the hope of competing with a Lotus.

If you're having fun with it, have at it. Great job so far.

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JohnnyRancid said:

Where's your high-resolution sprites then?




Sure, it's not doom but I do have experience in the "hi-ressing" of small sprites, however I prefer 3d modeling better. Does that validate my opinion enough? After all, you did ask.

8thmonth's efforts could be replicated in an engine, Yamori's can not. The resampling is obvious, there isn't really any improved, pixel pushed detail in them.

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leileilol said:

Sure, it's not doom but I do have experience in the "hi-ressing" of small sprites, however I prefer 3d modeling better. Does that validate my opinion enough? After all, you did ask.

8thmonth's efforts could be replicated in an engine, Yamori's can not. The resampling is obvious, there isn't really any improved, pixel pushed detail in them.



Not bad...I'm not really into anime, though. :p

Still, there's a good point being raised... Do I just reproduce the DOOM sprites, or do I try and add new colors, shading, or other "custom" details? Right now, it's kind of hard to tell what the finished product will look like. Probably a mixture of both.
As it is, some "hidden" details are coming out.
...Did you notice the 3-D model used for the humans and player are the same? Only re-skinned. Even the chaingunner is the almost same model, just stretched out a bit. I wonder if those original models still exist? What a find that would be. But, as I recall, some members of the DOOM(I&II) team didn't like the idea of amature modders having access to the WAD data, so they may never resurface.

Again, I have to re-iterate...This is NOT meant to be the ultimate doom wad, nor is it going to shake the community.
It's just a little thing I cooked-up. For fun.

If you want it..It's yours, for free. If not...

...Oh well....

August

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Oh..I've been meaning to add...
I'm sorry about "taking over" this thread. I'm not trying to derail GeckoYamori's project, or steal his thunder. I'd work with him, or for him if he'd let me.
The truth is, I'm not a great artist. I'm learning this as I go along.
The criticisms are quite true, and the praise is only half-earned.

I'm no gamer. :(

But, you know what?

There are no kind or cruel gods who smile or frown down upon us. It is we alone who make or break our own destiny.

So, I'm going for it. And, maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll pull a rabbit out of my @$$.


...Or, maybe not. But it's worth a try.

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Hey Cutman. I thought you weren't interested in this? Still, I value your input. I've seen your work, and I doubt I'll ever be as good as you.
Really, no $hit.

Sorry about all the talk. I'll post a link just as soon as I have something new worth looking at. No new post till then.
Promise. ;)

I love your portal gun video on youtube.

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I was just sayin' that you shouldn't try so hard to explain why you'll never be so good or whatever. Just make stuff and as long as you're having fun doing it continue to do it. Most people liked yours so go for it!

And thanks. Btw it's no longer "on youtube". Check this weeks newstuff!

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you should find a way to batch convert all with hq4x.exe
I guess it's faster and not misalignement risky, isn't it?
furthermore, it save much ram. You know what I mean
if you messed up with zdoomgl.

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DoomKn1ght said:

you should find a way to batch convert all with hq4x.exe

It's not hard to batch convert with hq4x. I've done it myself and the results were... disappointing. The end product was, as far as I was concerned, no further towards being finished that a simple anti-aliased resize would have been. There were still loads of blocky bits and zaggy edges. They would have required a lot of "post production" to look good. I did a few rotations of the Zombieman but the time investment wasn't justified by the end product.

Batch converting the sprites, regarless of what system you are using, is going to be pretty easy. It's what comes next that takes the time and is needed to make them look good.

Strange, because I think the hq filter works quite well in EDGE as part of the engine.

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Enjay said:

It's not hard to batch convert with hq4x. I've done it myself and the results were... disappointing. The end product was, as far as I was concerned, no further towards being finished that a simple anti-aliased resize would have been. There were still loads of blocky bits and zaggy edges. They would have required a lot of "post production" to look good. I did a few rotations of the Zombieman but the time investment wasn't justified by the end product.


I don't understand how it look better in zdoomgl/edge.
I tried myself and hq4x.exe messed up the color chanels
of my indexed bmp but not a truecolor one.

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